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Do you believe in God?[W:359]

Do you believe in God?


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    103
Re: Do you believe in God?

You make a compelling argument for women priests. Don't hold your breath, however.

Oh, I'm not, not in the short-term anyhow. Eventually, they're going to have to cave as they receive more pressure from congregants. Of course, what I'm really arguing for is doing away with priest celibacy. Doing that alone will cut down dramatically on sexual abuse of all kinds, simply because these men won't be denying their basic human biological needs.

I don't disagree with the research you've posted, but I would say that it incorrect to compare pedophile data between the Roman Catholic Church and most or perhaps any Protestant denomination. The RC Church has a hierarchy that is quiet different from Southern Baptists, for example. By comparison the Southern Baptist clergy don't have much of an institutional hierarchy. As such there is no comparative reporting structure. A Youth Minister at the 1st Baptist Church in Dirt Squat, Kansas who is discovered to have sexually assaulted young boys will be dealt with locally. There is no institutional reporting structure compared to the Roman Catholic Church in Dirt Squat, Kansas.

Absolutely they are, but some people assume that the RCC is the only one with a problem and they simply are not. Lots of religious leaders are using their positions of power to engage in illegal sexual activity with their parishioners of any age. It's not just young boys, there are plenty of cases of adult rape in the RCC as well. However, we do know specifically in the RCC that they have had an official position, a position written by the current Pope, to hide pedophile priests and to resist police investigations. They have actively hidden pedophile priests, shuffled them around to new churches and exposed thousands of children to danger, simply because they didn't want the bad publicity. That's not a problem, as you note, in most independent churches where they don't have that kind of command structure.
 
Re: Do you believe in God?

I don't believe The Diety has a gender. I see The Diety like a huge diamond with an incredibly bright light at its center. Every different pantheon in human history is simply a series of facets of that diamond; just like you see light differently through a prism at different angles.
Wow I didnt figure as being one of those New Age people.
 
Re: Do you believe in God?

Yes, but I'm not talking about the old white-bearded guy or some other being that performs impossible tasks for us mere mortals ...
 
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Re: Do you believe in God?

Honestly, anyone who is only acting good because they're afraid of some imaginary father figure in the sky punishing them after they die is pretty unstable to begin with. Those people, we need to find and get out of the gene pool as fast as we can.
As opposed to anyone who is only acting good because they're afraid of an authority figure with a gun punishing them now?

Not that I have any particular urge to defend organized religions but that argument really doesn't hold water.
 
Re: Do you believe in God?

As opposed to anyone who is only acting good because they're afraid of an authority figure with a gun punishing them now?

Not that I have any particular urge to defend organized religions but that argument really doesn't hold water.

At least the authority figure is demonstrably real. Granted, I don't have much respect for people who do either.
 
Re: Do you believe in God?

At least the authority figure is demonstrably real. Granted, I don't have much respect for people who do either.
The religions that teach/control using faith are just as demonstrably real. The origin of faith doesn't matter. In most groups The Man, or at least most people's conception of The Man, is just as unreal.
 
Re: Do you believe in God?

God is love. Often times tough love, but love none the less.
 
Re: Do you believe in God?

God is love. Often times tough love, but love none the less.

I guess we'll chock up Numbers 31:15, where god ordered moses to murder the men, women and children of a conquered nation, then to take the virgins for themselves as tough love. I can feel the love from here.
 
Re: Do you believe in God?

The religions that teach/control using faith are just as demonstrably real. The origin of faith doesn't matter. In most groups The Man, or at least most people's conception of The Man, is just as unreal.

They're not teaching that the religion is going to punish them, they're teaching that an imaginary father figure in the sky is going to punish them. There's a difference. We're back to real, demonstrable punishment and imaginary punishment.
 
Re: Do you believe in God?

They're not teaching that the religion is going to punish them, they're teaching that an imaginary father figure in the sky is going to punish them. There's a difference. We're back to real, demonstrable punishment and imaginary punishment.
So you're saying threatening people with a horrible but imaginary afterlife is worse than threatening them with having to share a cell with Baba?
 
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Re: Do you believe in God?

So you're saying threatening people with a horrible but imaginary afterlife is worse than threatening them with having to share a cell with Baba?

One is real, one is not. One is demonstrable, one is delusional.
 
Re: Do you believe in God?

One is real, one is not. One is demonstrable, one is delusional.
Can you actually demonstrate sharing a cell with Baba? ;)

The point is that most people really have no understanding of the law, or what it's like in prison, or very little else when it comes to the real nuts and bolts of our justice system. The idealized image they maintain to represent that system is as fictional as any novel on a shelf. In some specific cases it's probably more fictional than the novel if it happens to be a fact inspired work compared to a particularly ignorant person.
 
Re: Do you believe in God?

Can you actually demonstrate sharing a cell with Baba? ;)

Absolutely. I can drag you into a prison and show you the cell. I could show you Bubba. Actually, I could leave you two alone and let Bubba prove himself to you. It can be demonstrated. The other side of the coin is entirely without a shred of evidence. Saying you'll go to hell is about as rational as saying you'll be skewered by a unicorn. It's an entirely empty concept.
 
Re: Do you believe in God?

The masses carry an illusion of the justice system that is no more real to the experienced eyes of a lawyer than God is to you.

Absolutely. I can drag you into a prison and show you the cell. I could show you Bubba. Actually, I could leave you two alone and let Bubba prove himself to you. It can be demonstrated. The other side of the coin is entirely without a shred of evidence. Saying you'll go to hell is about as rational as saying you'll be skewered by a unicorn. It's an entirely empty concept.
And how exactly will you carry out this demonstration with millions of people?


(BTW - Thanks for the correction of Bubba's name. :3oops: )
 
Re: Do you believe in God?

And how exactly will you carry out this demonstration with millions of people?

Whether or not you actually do a thing is irrelevant. It is possible to do that thing.
 
Re: Do you believe in God?

Whether or not you actually do a thing is irrelevant. It is possible to do that thing.
Seems to me we're back where we started. It's more effective to scare them with Hell fire and brimstone.
 
Re: Do you believe in God?

Seems to me we're back where we started. It's more effective to scare them with Hell fire and brimstone.

Seems this thread has gone offtrack. Are you implying god should be believed in because, regardless of whether god exists or not, ppl will behave better if they fear eternal damnation?
 
Re: Do you believe in God?

Seems this thread has gone offtrack. Are you implying god should be believed in because, regardless of whether god exists or not, ppl will behave better if they fear eternal damnation?
This started at post #229/205 in case you haven't been following:
Honestly, anyone who is only acting good because they're afraid of some imaginary father figure in the sky punishing them after they die is pretty unstable to begin with. Those people, we need to find and get out of the gene pool as fast as we can.
As opposed to anyone who is only acting good because they're afraid of an authority figure with a gun punishing them now?

Not that I have any particular urge to defend organized religions but that argument really doesn't hold water.
So, do I believe people will behave better if they fear eternal damnation? Only to roughly the same extent that people will behave better if they fear The Man and what He will do to them.
 
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Re: Do you believe in God?

This started at post #229/205 in case you haven't been following:

No I was following and please wasn`t trying to direct criticism at you. It just seems this went from do you believe, to does god exist, to debating whether ppl act better because of belief in god, to what is best way to get ppl to behave. Seems getting farther and farther from original topic. I find a lot of ppl post emotionally and not rationally, In this I mean they try and insult the other person instead of influence them and bring them to their point of view. Sad really and no one gets anywhere like that, excuse the reference but that`s only good when you are preaching to the choir, When trying to convince people who don`t share your view a more moderate tone works best.

But then this is an emotional topic for many ppl and well I suppose we wouldn`t be human if we didn`t have emotions. So now that i`ve babbled on a bit just ignore me and carry on.
Again not directed at you specifically just wanna see if ppl can bring it back on topic a bit more.
 
Re: Do you believe in God?

Seems to me we're back where we started. It's more effective to scare them with Hell fire and brimstone.

Why should we have to scare them at all? Why shouldn't most people do the right thing, just because it's the right thing to do?
 
Re: Do you believe in God?

I believe in the existence of G-d in the same vein as I believe in my own existence. Obviously, the universe is both awesomely alive and awesomely intelligent, at least to the degree that it can be assessed by those sentient beings known to us and of which we include ourselves. I call the totality of this universal vitality and intelligence, which I cannot help but feel pulsating through mine own veins, "G-d," and I prostrate myself before it because I am utterly overwhelmed by its awesome and undeniable presence.
 
Re: Do you believe in God?

Why should we have to scare them at all? Why shouldn't most people do the right thing, just because it's the right thing to do?
I agree, they should! :)

But that doesn't mean they will. Take away the police and the jails and see how long it takes us to revert to anarchy.
 
Why should we have to scare them at all? Why shouldn't most people do the right thing, just because it's the right thing to do?

Because men are not angels and need the incentives to do what is right while a minority will mostly act on good faith regardless.
 
Re: Do you believe in God?

Why should we have to scare them at all? Why shouldn't most people do the right thing, just because it's the right thing to do?

Freud wrote about the Ego overtaking the Id. It usually happens during childhood when the child learns that certain activities will result in punishment from the parents. Of course, some children aren't actually raised, just left to grow. Those kids reach the crest much later through laws and imprisonment, but prison only straightens out the meek and mild, some thrive on the inmate population hierarchy. Those tend to find God when they age and lose their strength and agility.

Jesus and God are pretty heavy hitters to have on your side, even towards the non-believers. Mostly because many atheists still wonder why it makes you stronger.
 
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