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Is intelligent Design a scientific theory?

Is intelligent Design a scientific theory?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 4.7%
  • no

    Votes: 61 95.3%

  • Total voters
    64
It is, or ought to be, totally clear. If an hypothesis is just a group of related propositions, and those statements are untested, just what separates a scientific hypothesis from a non-scientific one?

You said, in response to my entire post #83 (apparently), that it's (what? I'm not sure what "it" refers to) not a matter of being right all the time, but it is instead the questioning, the testing, the revising.

I replied that artists and philosophers question, test, and revise all the time. But surely you aren't saying that artists and philosophers are scientists, are you? That seems overly broad.

Just to increase the clarity and make sure everyone's on the same page, here: my thesis is that it's not clear what science is. It's not clear what separates science from other disciplines. The borders are fuzzy, if not entirely nonexistant in spots. You seem to disagree with that assessment. So when you say that science is about testing, revising, and questioning, you had better say specifically what's different about the way a scientist tests, revises, and questions if you want to have a point.



You include mathematicians in what? In the category of accountants? I can think of a few dozen mathematicians off the top of my head that would probably take issue with that.



No, I don't like it because I think it's wrong. People working in a field neither completely define what that scope of that field is, nor should they be allowed to. That was the purpose of the accountant example. If accountants were allowed to just decide the scope of their work, with no other force to contradict or shape their decision, then clearly accountants would be free to proclaim that everything is accounting. This would leave accountants in a position to dictate to artists, writers, scientists, politicians, businesspeople, actors, philosophers, historians, and even athletes the principles of those disciplines. Clearly, the decision as to the scope of a particular area of endeavor should not be left up to those working in the field.

Nor is it, as a matter of practical necessity. To use accountants, again, it turns out that politicians have a heck of a lot to say about what accountants do and do not do. So do business managers. So do mathematicians, and to a lesser extent, economists. This is not to say that accountants don't have some say in determining the scope of accounting. But it is to say that they are far from the only one who determine that scope. A similar rule applies to the sciences.



If that were all I had said, you'd have a good point. But that isn't all I said, now is it? In the section you quoted, I said:



Tracing back just a little, you introduced the phrase "factually incorrect" by saying:

Emphasis added.

This occurred at the end of your post 85, and the bolded part led me to believe that the entirety of post 85 was meant to show me factually incorrect. I rebutted post 85, short as it was, point by point, and then said I was not factually incorrect because, first, being motivated to read up on the topic (it being one of my favorite topics to read up on and ponder), I have in fact read up on the topic, and am fairly familiar with the issues at hand. Second, for the reasons stated in my rebuttal, I am not factually incorrect contra your rebutted claim. You are, of course, free to rebutt further...

See Redress above. You are largely in error factually. You are, as noted, making the same mistakes in reasoning (using misinformation to help) that those who favor the non-scientific intelligent design uses. And yes, I begin and end with the factual statement that you are in fact incorrect in the facts you present.
 
Are you saying that because their views are life came from space, their math is biased?

No, I'm saying they do not support any kind of creation idea, they have no problem with evolution, they just don't think it happened here. They 100% agree with an entirely naturalistic explanation of the origin of life. Creationists, unfortunately, often try to use them as "proof" that scientists support creationist ideas, but they purposely misrepresent what Hoyle and Wickramsinghe actually believe.
 
No, I'm saying they do not support any kind of creation idea, they have no problem with evolution, they just don't think it happened here. They 100% agree with an entirely naturalistic explanation of the origin of life. Creationists, unfortunately, often try to use them as "proof" that scientists support creationist ideas, but they purposely misrepresent what Hoyle and Wickramsinghe actually believe.

But that's a plus isn't it? If they don't support creationism in any way, and the math from multiple sources identifies that life happening by chance out of a primordial soup is impossible, it must be something else. I don't condemn their non-creationism view.
 
But that's a plus isn't it? If they don't support creationism in any way, and the math from multiple sources identifies that life happening by chance out of a primordial soup is impossible, it must be something else. I don't condemn their non-creationism view.

High odds against something do not mean that is impossible in fact it means the opposite it means it is possible just unlikely.
 
Boo Radley said:
See Redress above. You are largely in error factually. You are, as noted, making the same mistakes in reasoning (using misinformation to help) that those who favor the non-scientific intelligent design uses. And yes, I begin and end with the factual statement that you are in fact incorrect in the facts you present.

I did see Redress, above, and replied. I await a response. You're clearly not engaging my posts, which leads me to believe you really don't have an argument. If I'm really incorrect, it would be, or should be, quite easy for you to say why. That you don't is a good indication that you have no real argument.

In any case, I don't see any resemblance to what I've said and anything an IDer has said. Intelligent Design is a critique of adduced mechanisms of evolution. I'm making some remarks about how science itself is to be defined. The two are obviously different theses, related only insofar as my remarks relate to all of human endeavor. Moreover, I don't support ID, so why my remarks would have any resemblance is rather unclear.
 
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But that's a plus isn't it? If they don't support creationism in any way, and the math from multiple sources identifies that life happening by chance out of a primordial soup is impossible, it must be something else. I don't condemn their non-creationism view.

They're the only ones who seem to think that's the case though. Pretty much everyone else thinks they're nuts.
 
They're the only ones who seem to think that's the case though. Pretty much everyone else thinks they're nuts.

Perhaps they are, my link however provides many other examples with the same conclusions. Discount Hoyle if you want... there's plenty more.
 
Perhaps they are, my link however provides many other examples with the same conclusions. Discount Hoyle if you want... there's plenty more.

When they convince the scientific community, let me know. Hoyle can't, of course, he's dead.
 
When they convince the scientific community, let me know. Hoyle can't, of course, he's dead.

As I've stated multiple times, it's about the math, not their individual beliefs, not about their persuasion skills, who their married to, where they live, etc....
 
So called intelligent design has some merit; however unscientific it may be.
In our schools some "unscientific" stuff should be taught....we must realize that we do not know everything , or even close.
 
Perhaps they are, my link however provides many other examples with the same conclusions. Discount Hoyle if you want... there's plenty more.

Your link provides many other examples and then refutes them. That's the whole purpose of that page.
 
They're the only ones who seem to think that's the case though. Pretty much everyone else thinks they're nuts.

"Those with a different view are nuts."
Man has far too much of this and far too little respect for others...Who knows...1000 years from now this "nutsy" view may be proved to be scientifically correct.
 
"Those with a different view are nuts."
Man has far too much of this and far too little respect for others...Who knows...1000 years from now this "nutsy" view may be proved to be scientifically correct.

Sure, and let us know when that actually happens. Until then, it remains unproven and unaccepted.
 
No is winning... 45 to 0... didn't expect result

I don't see how anybody could define Intelligent Design as part of science, it just spiritual explanation as why evolution occurs or exists. Science and religion doesn't conflict, so I don't have a problem with people merging it as long as they aren't dismissing actual science or making themselves ignorant about science.

Same way people can call evolution settled science even though there is the elephant in the room of the missing link I guess.
 
Same way people can call evolution settled science even though there is the elephant in the room of the missing link I guess.

Except there hasn't been a missing link for decades.
 
Except there hasn't been a missing link for decades.

Oh yeah? Every time they discover a new fossil they create two new missing links on either side of it. Take THAT you crazy Darwinist! ;)
 
Same way people can call evolution settled science even though there is the elephant in the room of the missing link I guess.
Ardipithecus ramidus is one more recently discovered piece of the puzzle. Considering the scarcity of fossils in general, compared to all the species that have been over 4 billion years, don't expect to ever have all the little pieces connected by fossil evidence.
 
It's a bunch of religious nonsense. It wouldn't know rigorous scientific principles if it tripped over them. Keep irrarional crap out of the schools.

Keep irrational crap^ out of this thread. :roll:
 
ID makes the only sense in light of the Laws of Nature. That's not to say that I believe any religion's story of creation. I just think there is a higher power that began all this.
 
Oh yeah? Every time they discover a new fossil they create two new missing links on either side of it. Take THAT you crazy Darwinist! ;)

We call this scientific discovery...it is actually not just expected, but hoped for.

The only reason this does not take place with ID, is simply because there will not be discovery in the first place...unless someone digs up an angel someday, finds the bones of Adam, or God comes down and giggles at us over his dinosaur joke.
 
No, I'm saying they do not support any kind of creation idea, they have no problem with evolution, they just don't think it happened here. They 100% agree with an entirely naturalistic explanation of the origin of life. Creationists, unfortunately, often try to use them as "proof" that scientists support creationist ideas, but they purposely misrepresent what Hoyle and Wickramsinghe actually believe.

How often? Please provide links to these often attempts.
 
Then stop posting it.

I'm not, but you can improve discussion by ending the rabid mouthfoaming while people are trying to talk to you. You haven't provided anything more than your own rhetoric.
 
Except there hasn't been a missing link for decades.

The missing link controversy probably deserves a thread of it's own. Every so often someone claims they found it but nothing so far has been widely accepted by scientist as "the definitive missing link that proves Darwinism".
 
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