View Poll Results: Should America deploy troops to Syria?

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  • Yes

    1 0.77%
  • No

    110 84.62%
  • Yes, but only Special Forces troops

    6 4.62%
  • No. Maybe in the future.

    13 10.00%
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Thread: Should America deploy troops to Syria?

  1. #201
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    Re: Should America deploy troops to Syria?

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    Is that why the Chinese got the first big oil contracts out of Iraq?

    That aside -- we did not invade Iraq because of oil.
    Did do it because of wmds either.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Should America deploy troops to Syria?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Did do it because of wmds either.
    Finding no WMD's, and indeed the potential that none were there to be found at all, does not negate that looking for WMD's played a role.

  3. #203
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    Re: Should America deploy troops to Syria?

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    Finding no WMD's, and indeed the potential that none were there to be found at all, does not negate that looking for WMD's played a role.
    No, that isn't what makes it not the reason. They never had any real reason to use that as a rationale to begin with. They came up with the action, to invade, and then sought to find a reason. Tenent's famous slam dunk quote in context was that it was a reason that would play, that we'd buy.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #204
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    Re: Should America deploy troops to Syria?

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    Is that why the Chinese got the first big oil contracts out of Iraq?

    That aside -- we did not invade Iraq because of oil.
    All oil is sold on the world oil market and all the big oil companies were kicked out of Iraq when the Nationalized their oil 35 years ago. We fixed that. Big oil is once again back in Iraq after 35 years of exile thanks to the US military.

    The price spikes caused by Iraq by withholding oil from the world market was the only threat to the US that has been verified. Cheney's Energy task force recommended military action in Iraq for this purpose 2 years before our invasion and occupation.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Should America deploy troops to Syria?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, that isn't what makes it not the reason. They never had any real reason to use that as a rationale to begin with. They came up with the action, to invade, and then sought to find a reason. Tenent's famous slam dunk quote in context was that it was a reason that would play, that we'd buy.
    I'm certainly not going to defend Iraq -- but from my perspective, if there is a national interest at stake, then I believe we have every right to go wherever we want and protect that interest.

    I think Iraq in hindsight was a blunder based on bad information.

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    Re: Should America deploy troops to Syria?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    All oil is sold on the world oil market and all the big oil companies were kicked out of Iraq when the Nationalized their oil 35 years ago. We fixed that. Big oil is once again back in Iraq after 35 years of exile thanks to the US military.

    The price spikes caused by Iraq by withholding oil from the world market was the only threat to the US that has been verified. Cheney's Energy task force recommended military action in Iraq for this purpose 2 years before our invasion and occupation.
    I am interested to see some documentation that "big oil" was the leading cause for why we went to war -- since you assert we sold our military to the highest bidder in this regard.

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    Re: Should America deploy troops to Syria?

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    I'm certainly not going to defend Iraq -- but from my perspective, if there is a national interest at stake, then I believe we have every right to go wherever we want and protect that interest.

    I think Iraq in hindsight was a blunder based on bad information.
    It was a reckless blunder that ahd nothing to do with information. We never had anything that would warrant an invasion.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Should America deploy troops to Syria?

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    I am interested to see some documentation that "big oil" was the leading cause for why we went to war -- since you assert we sold our military to the highest bidder in this regard.

    The politicians and their corporate sponsors are who profited from our war in Iraq on their behalf.

    "Over the past year, Iraq has effectively become a swing producer, turning its taps on and off when it has felt such action was in its strategic interest to do so."

    "Review policies towards Iraq with the aim to lowering anti-Americanism in the Middle East and elsewhere, and set the groundwork to eventually ease Iraqi oil-field investment restrictions. Iraq remains a destabilizing influence to U.S. allies in the Middle East, as well as to regional and global order, and to the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East. Saddam Hussein has also demonstrated a willingness to threaten to use the oil weapon and to use his own export program to manipulate oil markets. This would display his personal power, enhance his image as a “Pan-Arab” leader supporting the Palestinians against Israel, and pressure others for a lifting of economic sanctions against his regime.

    The United States should conduct an immediate policy review towards Iraq, including military, energy, economic and political/diplomatic assessments. "

    "Middle East Gulf crude oil currently makes up around 25 percent of world oil supply, but could rise to 30-40 percent during the next decade as the region’s key producers pursue higher investments to capture expanding demand for oil in Asia and the developing world. If political factors were to block the development of new oil fields in the Gulf, the ramifications for world oil markets could be quite severe."

    "This reopening is important and should be on the bilateral U.S. agenda with these countries. The Department of State, together with the National Security Council, Department of Energy, and Department of Commerce, should develop a strategic plan to encourage reopening to foreign investment in these important states of the Middle East Gulf."

    "More oil could likely be brought into the marketplace in the coming years if oil-field development could be enhanced by participation of U.S. companies in countries where such investments are currently banned"

    STRATEGIC ENERGY POLICY CHALLENGES


    No other threat to the US from Iraq has been verified.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #209
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    Re: Should America deploy troops to Syria?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, that isn't what makes it not the reason. They never had any real reason to use that as a rationale to begin with. They came up with the action, to invade, and then sought to find a reason. Tenent's famous slam dunk quote in context was that it was a reason that would play, that we'd buy.
    that's a theory that belongs in the conspiracy forum.

    A) Saddam did have both the missiles that were denied him (we counted more treaty-violating missiles flying over our heads in the first 48 hours of the war than the UN found in 10 years), and he did have WMD.

    B) What he did not have were active WMD production lines, which is what we thought he had.

    C) On-record as believing that Saddam had active-production lines are the leadership of both parties back into the 1990's, the Germans, the French, the Russians, the UN, and evidence collected after the fall of Baghdad suggests that even Saddam may have believed he had active production lines. You didn't do well in Ba'ath Party circles by being the one to report failure.

    But yeah. I'm sure that Democrats lied for years so that Bush could justify invading Iraq.

    enjoy:


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    Re: Should America deploy troops to Syria?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The politicians and their corporate sponsors are who profited from our war in Iraq on their behalf.

    "Over the past year, Iraq has effectively become a swing producer, turning its taps on and off when it has felt such action was in its strategic interest to do so."

    "Review policies towards Iraq with the aim to lowering anti-Americanism in the Middle East and elsewhere, and set the groundwork to eventually ease Iraqi oil-field investment restrictions. Iraq remains a destabilizing influence to U.S. allies in the Middle East, as well as to regional and global order, and to the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East. Saddam Hussein has also demonstrated a willingness to threaten to use the oil weapon and to use his own export program to manipulate oil markets. This would display his personal power, enhance his image as a “Pan-Arab” leader supporting the Palestinians against Israel, and pressure others for a lifting of economic sanctions against his regime.

    The United States should conduct an immediate policy review towards Iraq, including military, energy, economic and political/diplomatic assessments. "

    "Middle East Gulf crude oil currently makes up around 25 percent of world oil supply, but could rise to 30-40 percent during the next decade as the region’s key producers pursue higher investments to capture expanding demand for oil in Asia and the developing world. If political factors were to block the development of new oil fields in the Gulf, the ramifications for world oil markets could be quite severe."

    "This reopening is important and should be on the bilateral U.S. agenda with these countries. The Department of State, together with the National Security Council, Department of Energy, and Department of Commerce, should develop a strategic plan to encourage reopening to foreign investment in these important states of the Middle East Gulf."

    "More oil could likely be brought into the marketplace in the coming years if oil-field development could be enhanced by participation of U.S. companies in countries where such investments are currently banned"

    STRATEGIC ENERGY POLICY CHALLENGES


    No other threat to the US from Iraq has been verified.


    Do you have the names of the oil companies currently operating in Iraq?

    Excerpt

    The increased flow and vital port improvements have produced a 20 percent jump in exports this year to nearly 2.5 million barrels of oil a day, making Iraq one of the premier producers in OPEC for the first time in decades.

    Energy analysts say that the Iraqi boom — coupled with increased production in Saudi Arabia and the near total recovery of Libya’s oil industry — should cushion oil markets from price spikes and give the international community additional leverage over Iran when new sanctions take effect in July.

    “Iraq helps enormously,” said David L. Goldwyn, the former State Department coordinator for international energy affairs in the Obama administration. Even if Iraq increased its oil exports by only half of what it is projecting by next year, he said, “You would be replacing nearly half of the future Iranian supply potentially displaced by tighter sanctions.”

    For Iraq, the resurgence of oil, which it is already pumping at rates seen only once — and briefly — since Saddam Hussein took power in 1979, is vital to its postwar success. Oil provides more than 95 percent of the government’s revenues, has enabled the building of roads and the expansion of social services, and has greatly strengthened the Shiite-led government’s hand in this ethnically divided country.

    Oil has also brought its share of pitfalls for the fledgling democracy, fostering corruption and patronage, and aggravating tensions with the Kurdish minority in the north over the division of profits, a festering issue that could end up fracturing the country.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/wo...gewanted=print

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