View Poll Results: Is it time to double down on green energy that has never been more promising?

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    17 50.00%
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    15 44.12%
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    2 5.88%
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Thread: Obama Green double down question

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    Obama Green double down question

    On April 18th, 2012 in Michigan, President Obama again called for a "double down" on clean energy, which was met with some skepticism and rightly so. There have been a few high profile failures in the green sector; some of which used taxpayer money to fund, in the hundreds of millions of dollars, only to fail. The private sector can do that and the down side is, that failure costs investors in the market place. Government does it with taxpayer money, there is no down side; just get more tax payer money and keep trying until something succeeds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Investors.com
    Green Energy: Another day and another set of layoffs at a Department of Energy-backed solar company and an electric-car maker funded with stimulus dollars. Yet the President wants to double down on green energy.
    First Solar, a solar energy company that received a $1.46 billion loan guarantee from the Department of Energy, announced Monday it will lay off 2,000 workers worldwide. In December, First Solar laid off 100 employees at a Santa Clara , Calif., plant.
    The DOE has committed the loan to a project in Riverside County, Calif., expected to create a whopping 15 permanent jobs and 550 construction jobs.
    Contrast this boondoggle with the privately funded Keystone XL pipeline, delayed by President Obama over alleged environmental concerns, which would create 20,000 jobs initially and perhaps 10 times that over the life of the project. It will bring 800,000 barrels of oil daily to U.S. refineries, whether the sun shines or not.
    Last Friday, Delaware Online reports, 12 more workers including engineers and maintenance technicians were laid off at Fisker Automotive's plant in Wilmington, Del., an old General Motors facility.
    Originally Fisker was to build its $107,850 dream car, the electric Fisker Karma, there. The Karma, which Consumer Reports labeled "undrivable" after it had to be towed away after a test drive, is being built by Valmet in Finland. Fisker Automotive is the recipient of a $529 million federal government loan guarantee.
    Unlike the "subsidies" allegedly given to oil companies, these are real dollars going from our wallets to theirs. The oil companies actually get not a dime, but the same tax breaks as all other manufacturers.
    Solyndra, the politically connected recipient of a half-billion-dollar stimulus loan before it too went bankrupt, was only the tip of the iceberg in Obama's green energy failures.
    President Obama Doubles Down On Green Energy Despite New Layoff - Investors.com



    Quote Originally Posted by Barack Obama - Michigan April 18th, 2012
    We need to be supporting scientists and researchers who are trying to make the next breakthrough in clean energy or biotech. I want clean energy to happen here in the United States. I want advanced batteries made here in the United States. I want electric cars made here in the United States. I want solar and wind power made here in the United States. (Applause.) Weve been subsidizing oil companies with taxpayer giveaways for about 100 years now. Its time for us to double down on clean energy that has never been more promising. (Applause.)
    Obama in Dearborn, Michigan 4/18/2012 Photos, video, and transcript | Eclectablog

    "I want"... "We need"... "I want..."

    Now take the poll.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Obama Green double down question

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    On April 18th, 2012 in Michigan, President Obama again called for a "double down" on clean energy, which was met with some skepticism and rightly so. There have been a few high profile failures in the green sector; some of which used taxpayer money to fund, in the hundreds of millions of dollars, only to fail. The private sector can do that and the down side is, that failure costs investors in the market place. Government does it with taxpayer money, there is no down side; just get more tax payer money and keep trying until something succeeds.
    Yep, that's how technology always has worked and always will. In the history of every new technology that changed the world, there has always been a period of time preceding it when it was expensive and didn't work very well. And prior to THAT period, there has always been a period of time when it didn't work at all. That isn't a reason to stop funding it; just the opposite.

    Presumably, everyone agrees that the world would be a better place if we had clean energy production, at a price competitive with fossil fuels. The government can provide incentives to make that happen faster. And before you tell me that we should just wait for market forces to do it, keep in mind that people are ALREADY not paying the full cost of fossil fuels. For example, the general public (rather than the consumer himself) is responsible for pollution that results from coal and oil. If people actually had to pay for the full cost of the oil/coal they use, alternative energies would become economically viable much sooner.
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    Re: Obama Green double down question

    On April 18th, 2012 in Michigan, President Obama again called for a "double down" on clean energy, which was met with some skepticism and rightly so. There have been a few high profile failures in the green sector; some of which used taxpayer money to fund, in the hundreds of millions of dollars, only to fail. The private sector can do that and the down side is, that failure costs investors in the market place. Government does it with taxpayer money, there is no down side; just get more tax payer money and keep trying until something succeeds.
    I consider that a big downside.
    I think the biggest problem is they are thowing money away trying to get these technologies into service, when really they should be investing more into R&D. Untill you get to the point where you can come up with better methods in terms of efficiency (both production and output) you are wasting money. If that money was put into R&D then the solutions could come sooner than they will using the current wastefull method.
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    Re: Obama Green double down question

    I agree that it is appropriate for the USG to support research into green technology as long as it is domestic research for domestic purpose using domestic labor. I'm not supportive of investing in Finnish automobiles or Chinese solar panels, that should be done by private industry.

    Personally, I'm not very hopeful about American green projects. We sure could use oil alternatives but I doubt this is the country that will accomplish that. Hopefully, other countries will develop alternatives and we will import them with our dollars (the one thing we are good at manufacturing).

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    Re: Obama Green double down question

    And don't forget about the DOE loan guarantee to Tesla Motors so they can build a factory to produce their S Model to the tune of 465 million dollars. Someday, if we are lucky, we can buy one for 50 grand for the base model. (after the 7.5k tax credit) for a car that might get you 160 miles on a charge...if you don't drive over 55 mph.

    Taxpayer money well spent, I'm sure Obama would say.
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    Re: Obama Green double down question

    Hell yes! It was time to double down 30 years ago when we passed peak oil in this country.
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    Re: Obama Green double down question

    Obviously. If we don't the tech just won't develop fast enough, we need to be a leader in this field, not a follower.
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    Re: Obama Green double down question

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    And don't forget about the DOE loan guarantee to Tesla Motors so they can build a factory to produce their S Model to the tune of 465 million dollars. Someday, if we are lucky, we can buy one for 50 grand for the base model. (after the 7.5k tax credit) for a car that might get you 160 miles on a charge...if you don't drive over 55 mph.

    Taxpayer money well spent, I'm sure Obama would say.
    The loan guarantee program for alternate energy sources was actually signed into law by President Bush.

    PolitiFact | Did the program that funded the Solyndra loan start under George W. Bush? David Plouffe says so

    Exclusive Timeline: Bush Administration Advanced Solyndra Loan Guarantee for Two Years, Media Blow the Story | ThinkProgress


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    Re: Obama Green double down question

    You know what else tax payer money helped fund? Nearly everything technologically advanced you have including the thing your typing on. There have been plenty of missteps along the way with cellphones and computers to. Maybe if they slapped green energy on the DoD budget like they used to in the past you would care less.
    "Were going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and thats crazy." -Reagan

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    Re: Obama Green double down question

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Obviously. If we don't the tech just won't develop fast enough, we need to be a leader in this field, not a follower.
    Another talking point that makes no sense.

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