View Poll Results: Is it time to double down on green energy that has never been more promising?

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  • Yes

    17 50.00%
  • No

    15 44.12%
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    2 5.88%
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Thread: Obama Green double down question

  1. #21
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    Re: Obama Green double down question

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    The only way alternate forms of energy will become economically viable in the near future is if the price of petroleum is artificially inflated. That appears to be Obama's goal.

    How is removing subsidies that artificially deflate a price...artificially inflating it?

    The only problem with this action is that in the time between full implementation of alternate energy technologies and the increase of petroleum, the consumer gets screwed...royally.

    The consumer is already getting the shaft, and we are using petroleum.

    So much for caring about the people.

    This shortsightedness, combined with an inability to lead...is why we are so far behind right now.

  2. #22
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    Re: Obama Green double down question

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post

    This shortsightedness, combined with an inability to lead...is why we are so far behind right now.


    1. How is removing subsidies that artificially deflate a price...artificially inflating it?

    2. The consumer is already getting the shaft, and we are using petroleum.
    1. Ummm...what subsidies have been removed?

    2. And why is that, do you think?

    No, the problem is that Obama aims to cause the price of oil to increase by not doing anything that will keep the price down.

    The consumers suffer as a result.

    Obama really cares, eh?
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    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  3. #23
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    Re: Obama Green double down question

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    No, the problem is that Obama aims to cause the price of oil to increase by not doing anything that will keep the price down.
    The canned Party Line!
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  4. #24
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    Re: Obama Green double down question

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    The canned Party Line!
    How does that represent a canned party line? There are only two ways to make green energy compete with lower priced fossil fuels. 1. heavily subsidize the green energy to make its price low enough to compete or 2. do things that will make the cost of fossil fuels rise. Obama has chosen to do a mixture of 1 and 2. Saying that is not towing a party line but stating fairly obvious facts.

  5. #25
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    Re: Obama Green double down question

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    How does that represent a canned party line? There are only two ways to make green energy compete with lower priced fossil fuels. 1. heavily subsidize the green energy to make its price low enough to compete or 2. do things that will make the cost of fossil fuels rise. Obama has chosen to do a mixture of 1 and 2. Saying that is not towing a party line but stating fairly obvious facts.
    From 2001-2008 there wasn't a damn thing GWB could have done to stop oil prices from rising. American presidents can do a lot of things but there is little any of them can do about prices on a global market. From 2009-present there wasn't a damn thing Obama could do about oil prices, either. Saying so or even implying that there's a legal way for any US president to control the price of oil is, at this point in time, towing the Republican Party Line.

    When GWB was in office and the Dems were screaming the same thing, it was the same answer - they were towing the Party Line.

    Don't like being told you're towing the Party Line? Then quit saying stupid ****!
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 04-21-12 at 01:25 PM.
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  6. #26
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    Re: Obama Green double down question

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    From 2001-2008 there wasn't a damn thing GWB could have done to stop oil prices from rising. American presidents can do a lot of things but there is little any of them can do about prices on a global market. From 2009-present there wasn't a damn thing Obama could do about oil prices, either. Saying so or even implying that there's a legal way for any US president to control the price of oil is, at this point in time, towing the Republican Party Line.

    When GWB was in office and the Dems were screaming the same thing, it was the same answer - they were towing the Party Line.

    Don't like being told you're towing the Party Line? Quit saying stupid ****!
    That really doesnt address what I said.

  7. #27
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    Re: Obama Green double down question

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    2. do things that will make the cost of fossil fuels rise.
    Do things like what?

    Increase domestic production? Domestic oil production has been rising every year since 2009. The previous eight years (2001-2008) domestic production was falling.

    The FET for fuel hasn't changed in a decade and is ~18c for gas and ~24c for diesel. Not a huge savings even if it were eliminated and what would we use for Interstate and US highway maintenance? Besides, I think Congress would have to change the FET.

    Nationalize the oil industry like Venezuela did? They're be a revolt - and not just from Republicans!
    No president would even suggest such a thing and anybody else suggesting it should be shot.


    Seriously, what do you people think can be done by just the president - or even with the help of Congress - to radically alter the price of gas?
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  8. #28
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    Re: Obama Green double down question

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Can't burn fossil fuels forever. Gotta go for it.
    Cell phones were also expensive and had the size of a brick at first but now they are slim and the battery last for a week or so. You get the idea, I think.
    And just how did government "investment" contribute to that? Or any other technological advance?
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  9. #29
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    Re: Obama Green double down question

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    And just how did government "investment" contribute to that? Or any other technological advance?
    Shall I start listing all the NASA and military spin offs or can you Google those yourself?


    Ed:
    IDK about the phones but there are plenty of other examples out there.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 04-21-12 at 04:39 PM.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Obama Green double down question

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Do things like what?

    Increase domestic production? Domestic oil production has been rising every year since 2009. The previous eight years (2001-2008) domestic production was falling.
    the increases in domestic oil production have come exclusively on private grounds, and is largely the result of approvals pushed through the Bush Administration. GOVERNMENT owned grounds - which Obama actually has impact on - are down 11% over the past two years, and the approval process has slowed to a trickle, meaning that even if we threw it all open tomorrow, we wouldn't see increased production for a year or two.

    Seriously, what do you people think can be done by just the president - or even with the help of Congress - to radically alter the price of gas?
    Remove Congressional and Presidential restrictions on drilling in the 80% of our waters currently off-limits. Streamline the approval process with hard deadlines for the bureaucrats to meet. Ditto for all other energy production methods - from coal to nuclear. Open up ANWR to drilling. Open up Federal lands for fracking, or sell them for that purpose.

    Most importantly, even though it would not effect the immediate supply of oil, it would heavily impact the futures market. Right now oil is in high demand not least because people see demand increasing faster than supply. Reverse (or seriously mitigate) those expectations, and you can expect to see an oil sell-off, which would cause the price to tumble.

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