View Poll Results: Would you go to war to defend the USA? (Americans only, please)

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  • Yes, by all means

    65 66.33%
  • Not for this USA

    12 12.24%
  • I wouldn't go to any war

    4 4.08%
  • Don't know

    17 17.35%
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Thread: Would you go to war to defend the USA?

  1. #211
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    Re: Would you go to war to defend the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane View Post
    Its way worse now than when the Church Committee was formed to investigate Cointelpro. You have Patriot Act wiretapping, Facebook spying, Twitter, infiltration of OWS, in addition to the Mockingbird and traditional techniques used in the 70's. A journalist on Democracy Now had his computer copied by DHS just for boarding a plane, plus the TSA crappola.
    In the 70's, such actions weren't really necessary. With the emergence of technological advancements, and attitudes that go against maintaining the status quo, of course the government is going to do what it deems necessary to maintain order. In the days of Vietnam, all the US had to worry about were hippies, the USSR, and small clusters of extremists and radicals. The populace as a whole was still relatively easy to keep in order. There's relatively no order now that our industry has been reduced significantly, the populace is ideologically polarized, our economy is ****, as is the farce we call a Congress. If they can't make us feel like they can keep us safe, they'll use intimidation to keep things running on time.

    Seeing pink elephants again?
    Just making an observation.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  2. #212
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    Re: Would you go to war to defend the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane View Post
    Its way worse now than when the Church Committee was formed to investigate Cointelpro. You have Patriot Act wiretapping, Facebook spying, Twitter, infiltration of OWS, in addition to the Mockingbird and traditional techniques used in the 70's. A journalist on Democracy Now had his computer copied by DHS just for boarding a plane, plus the TSA crappola.

    http://www.blacklistednews.com/TSA_H...0/0/0/Y/M.html






    Seeing pink elephants again? What Marxists?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    In the 70's, such actions weren't really necessary. With the emergence of technological advancements, and attitudes that go against maintaining the status quo, of course the government is going to do what it deems necessary to maintain order. In the days of Vietnam, all the US had to worry about were hippies, the USSR, and small clusters of extremists and radicals. The populace as a whole was still relatively easy to keep in order. There's relatively no order now that our industry has been reduced significantly, the populace is ideologically polarized, our economy is ****, as is the farce we call a Congress. If they can't make us feel like they can keep us safe, they'll use intimidation to keep things running on time. Just making an observation.

    Your observation, its inaccurate. Even then, they wiretapped, had police infiltrate peaceful protests to start act acts of violence the authorities could "clamp down" on, Mockingbird everywhere in the press, public derision of activists (remember Archie Bunker?) and Hollywood actors, they reinforce the same talking points on that farcical Fox or CNN, (the CIA news network) or John Wayne war propaganda movies. Even the movies are govmnt stenography to purge facts down the memory hole like Eastwoods J. Edgar or the idiotic biopics. Even Oliver Stone took it way easy on Nixon and Bush because thegovmnt owned press attacked his JFK movie, even though it was wholly accurate. The movies are completely sterile of social content with few exceptions, "Rendition"or Michael Moore who is scoffed at, while the industry and studios are themselves a snakepit of censorship, coercion, and political control.
    Last edited by Kane; 04-26-12 at 08:26 PM.

  3. #213
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    Re: Would you go to war to defend the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane View Post
    Your observation, its inaccurate. Even then, they wiretapped, had police infiltrate peaceful protests to start act acts of violence the authorities could "clamp down" on, Mockingbird everywhere in the press, public derision of activists (remember Archie Bunker?) and Hollywood actors, they reinforce the same talking points on that farcical Fox or CNN, (the CIA news network) or John Wayne war propaganda movies. Even the movies are govmnt stenography to purge facts down the memory hole like Eastwoods J. Edgar or the idiotic biopics. Even Oliver Stone took it way easy on Nixon and Bush because thegovmnt owned press attacked his JFK movie, even though it was wholly accurate. The movies are completely sterile of social content with few exceptions, "Rendition"or Michael Moore who is scoffed at, while the industry and studios are themselves a snakepit of censorship, coercion, and political control.
    So basically the only thing that changed was technology.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  4. #214
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    Re: Would you go to war to defend the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Presuming you are an American, would you go to war to defend the USA?
    No...........

  5. #215
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    Re: Would you go to war to defend the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    No...........
    why not, alberto?

  6. #216
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    Re: Would you go to war to defend the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by MKULTRABOY View Post
    why not, alberto?
    Where to begin? I've spent the last half hour typing a response to your question only to repeatedly delete what I've written while I gather my thoughts. I am pseudo-historian compared to the men and women against which I measure myself.

    I grew up and became a man in an era of American history much like Rome during the reigns of the Five Good Emperors who governed the Empire consecutively for a period of about 90 years in the first and second centuries of the Common Era. This was the heighth of Empire. It was quite literally the best of times for a the first iteration of Western Civilization. For some it was a Golden Age. Imo that span of time was like the American Era of world history from 1941 to 2001. Others would say the era lasted from 1945 to 1973.

    I was an American patriot who loved a land so dearly that my feelings crossed into nationalism and even chauvinism. I say this to give you perspective on the transformation of my world view.

    In 2004 I began to understand that I had been willfully blind in many ways for almost twenty years. But then, I was in good company.

    I knew denial and anger and the other stages of grief for a beloved land. Then for my own well being I began to detach myself emotionally from the fate of that land. Rome devolved, split up, and became something else while still calling itself Roman.

    America was a polity the creation of which was based on an idea. What becomes of that polity when the idea dies?

    I think I now understand how the Russian nobility must have felt around the time of the Russo-Japanese War when the Russian defeat revealed a hollow empire. Similarly, I think I know how some members of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union must have felt in the mid-1980s when they realized that they had spent seventy years on the road to no where. Neither the Russian nobility nor the Soviet intelligentsia could save what they loved.

    The land that I loved is gone. And I am aware that the past can never truly be restored.

    I am still in love, but now I am in love with the idea on which the polity was originally based. Individual liberty. This idea was born in Classical Greece, survived for almost 450 years in the form of the Roman Republic, and appeared again in the Venetian Republic of the Renaissance.

    That idea was refined and distilled during the European Enlightenment by men like Locke, Montesquieu, and Rosseau. The idea became incarnate again with the birth of America and its Constitution. It spread across a continent, expanded to other races and women, and spread through the world.

    The idea is now being rolled back slowly with the end of the American Era of the Western Epoch of history. But the idea won't ever die. It will appear again in some unknown polity among an unknown people.

    Am I too pessimistic? Perhaps, but detachment breeds objectivity. Some will say that nothing remains the same. This is true. There is a tide in the affairs of men and women to paraphrase the Bard. And I have seen this all before in a book by Edward Gibbon.

  7. #217
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    Re: Would you go to war to defend the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    America was a polity the creation of which was based on an idea. What becomes of that polity when the idea dies?
    I didn't know the idea has died. It's true that big government and (banker's) socialism have come way ahead in America to strangle personal liberty but it doesn't have to be that way anyway.

  8. #218
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    Re: Would you go to war to defend the USA?

    I wonder what kind of an overlap you'd get of a) the people in this thread who express some degree of unwillingness to defend the country, and b) the people who would say that the rich should pay more in taxes because they owe the country for their blessings.

    I suspect it would be rather large.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  9. #219
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    Re: Would you go to war to defend the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I wonder what kind of an overlap you'd get of a) the people in this thread who express some degree of unwillingness to defend the country, and b) the people who would say that the rich should pay more in taxes because they owe the country for their blessings.

    I suspect it would be rather large.
    American billionares don't owe america for their blessings... they owe... uh... soul of zombie reagan So you pledge allegiance to the rich over the majority of your countrymen... thanks. Pass it on.
    Last edited by MKULTRABOY; 04-27-12 at 04:38 PM.

  10. #220
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    Re: Would you go to war to defend the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by MKULTRABOY View Post
    American billionares don't owe america for their blessings... they owe... uh... soul of zombie reagan So you pledge allegiance to the rich over the majority of your countrymen... thanks. Pass it on.
    No, I only owe my family, and the family business.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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