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Following someone.

Is following someone an aggressive act?

  • Total voters
    34
Goshin said:
I don't think I'd say it is an AGGRESSIVE act, but it IS a suspicious act.

I actively watch for people following me (ex-cop habits). If I think I see someone following me, I will make two 90 degree turns and see if they're still behind me. If so, I assume it is deliberate. I will then either take evasive action or else pick my ground and turn to confront them.

Old military adage: Once is happenstance, twice may be coincedence, but three times is enemy action. If they follow me through two turns headed back the way we came, it is almost certainly deliberate.


It may not be hostile; they may want to hand me a religious tract, or ask me if I'd like to subscribe for 12 issues of Useless Magazine, or ask me if I'd like to buy health insurance.... but if I can't avoid them I'm going to find out before they come up behind me.


Interestingly enough, I once had an incident where I was in a very similar position to Treyvon Martin. I was even wearing a hoodie. (It was cold and windy).

It was daytime. I was walking back from my sister's house down the road, passing a closed garage building with a parking area in front. I veered into the parking lot a bit as I passed, since there is no sidewalk or curb and I didn't want to be any closer to the passing cars than necessary.

THAT was apparently enough to qualify as suspicious in the minds of two young men who'd appointed themselves to guard their Uncle's garage, which had been burgled twice in two weeks. One of them stepped out to block my way, while another tried to circle behind me. I saw #2 and placed myself where I could see both men at once. When #2 saw me do this, he stopped and looked at #1.


What they didn't know: I had a small pistol in the pocket of my hoodie and was pointing at them from inside the pocket.

#1 started barking questions at me: who was I, what was I doing, etc. I barked back that I was walking down the damn road and it was none of his business. THEN I recognized him as a local, and pushed back my hood so he could see me and recognize me as well, which he did. He explained what they were doing. I told them it was a bad idea, confronting strangers on flimsy suspicions, and went on my way.


Somebody just about got shot. Could have been me, of course... I don't know what THEY had in THEIR pockets either.

It could have turned out as a tragic case of misunderstanding ending with one or more dead bodies; I was not pleased to have my way blocked or see someone trying to get behind me, not one bit.


Following someone is not ILLEGAL, that I know of.... but it IS a suspicious and dangerous thing to do.
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From the 911 call, do you think it was suspicious and dangerous for Martin to turn and come angrily towards Zimmerman with Martin putting his hand in his pocket as he did - until he saw and maybe heard Zimmerman on the phone to the police department?
 
Blackdog said:
She said and I quote "Anyone who follows people and isn't a cop or a licensed PI should be considered a threat." this would include plain closed officers and most PI's. It is hyperbole, so I responded with such.
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The real problem with her post was that she didn't say "potential" before threat. It would be foolish to not assume that some stranger following you is not a potential threat. You were a cop, so I know that you know that's just the smart way to approach things.
 
DiAnna said:
Then it's a pity Trayvon Martin wasn't armed, because he could have legally shot Zimmerman dead on the spot, right?
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Have to be 18 to legally own a handgun in florida
 
Blackdog said:
It doesn't but that is not the problem here as it is legal.
I have been followed. I turn around and say can I help you? Only one time was it an issue as the person pulled a knife. I laughed and pulled my badge and handcuffs and he ran. Notice I did not pull a gun?
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Wait, you're still comparing the average individual to you, a self-described former police officer and security guard. I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but that puts you above the average individuals awareness, confidence, self-defense prepardness, etc. And if you also carry a gun, that puts you even further up the list. Again, can you stop for a moment and discuss the GENERAL notion of someone, other than yourself, (i.e. a majority of people? Most people? Average person?) in the situation.

. So what they perceive has no bearing other than it is not illegal to be followed unless it is repeated behavior.
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I haven't mentioned legality, and the OP poll doesn't either. There are many improper, bad, unethical things people do, that are not illegal, as I'm sure you know. We're talking risks to ones safety. If some perceives someone else is putting them at risk, they may perceive that as aggressive behavior.
 
Tucker Case said:
The real problem with her post was that she didn't say "potential" before threat. It would be foolish to not assume that some stranger following you is not a potential threat. You were a cop, so I know that you know that's just the smart way to approach things.
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If you aren't a shoplifter and you aren't breaking any laws someone following you had got to be perceived as a predator.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Is following someone an aggressive act?

Simple question, simple answer.

I don't believe that it is. If it was then police would not be able to legally follow people. Investigators (PI's) would not legally be able to do it. Paparazzi would not be able to do it.
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I voted "Yes," because I know this is about Zimmerman/Martin. I would have been genuinely frightened if I were out walking my dog at night (or during the day) and someone drove slowly behind me in his car...and then exited his car and began following me. If he caught up to me, and I had a gun in my pocket I was licensed to carry, I might have drawn it and held it at my side while I figured out what was going on. If I had a cell phone and no gun? I probably would have called 911.

If someone follows me on the street, I probably wouldn't even know about it. If someone followed me out of Whole Foods to my car? Then I wouldn't be worried about it. And I'd better not shoot her. ;)
 
Tucker Case said:
It's not nosy to be curious about why someone is following you. It's a part of making a threat assessment. The very fact that you have had a knife pulled on you in such scenarios proves that you are actually making just such an assessment. Fear has nothing to do with it.
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No, I was talking about myself following someone. Not someone following me.

Tucker Case said:
Only an idiot would assume that the person following them means them no harm and, based on that assumption, refrain from further investigation.
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That would depend on allot of "if's" at best.

Tucker Case said:
Not being an idiot =/= being afraid.
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I was talking about me following as I mentioned.
 
sharon said:
If you aren't a shoplifter and you aren't breaking any laws someone following you had got to be perceived as a predator.
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A potential predator, yes. That's just the smart thing to assume.

But following you doesn't automatically make them a predator. They might be doing it for a lot of non-predatory reasons as well.
 
Tucker Case said:
The real problem with her post was that she didn't say "potential" before threat. It would be foolish to not assume that some stranger following you is not a potential threat. You were a cop, so I know that you know that's just the smart way to approach things.
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Of course. She unfortunately has a habit of using hyperbole to try and make a point. So again I answered in kind.
 
Blackdog said:
No, I was talking about myself following someone. Not someone following me.
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My bad. I compeltel y misunderstodo that exchange. Brain fart of some sort.

If they turned around and confronted you about following them, would you not think that this was a perfectly reasonable behavior on their part?



That would depend on allot of "if's" at best.
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NOt really. If a stranger is following you, it would be very stupid to not take precautions.



I was talking about me following as I mentioned.
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As I asked above, would you think it's unreasonable for someone you are following to confront you about it?
 
Tucker Case said:
A potential predator, yes. That's just the smart thing to assume.

But following you doesn't automatically make them a predator. They might be doing it for a lot of non-predatory reasons as well.
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Like what? What sort of raving nutter follows people for no reason?
 
Tucker Case said:
A potential predator, yes. That's just the smart thing to assume.

But following you doesn't automatically make them a predator. They might be doing it for a lot of non-predatory reasons as well.
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I changed directions once or twice in my life to figure out if I knew the person that was walking for an opportunity to catch up, disengaged when I realized it wasn't who I was thinking of. I've had people follow me to return something I dropped and have done so for others as well.
 
Mach said:
Wait, you're still comparing the average individual to you, a self-described former police officer and security guard. I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but that puts you above the average individuals awareness, confidence, self-defense prepardness, etc. And if you also carry a gun, that puts you even further up the list. Again, can you stop for a moment and discuss the GENERAL notion of someone, other than yourself, (i.e. a majority of people? Most people? Average person?) in the situation.
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What is the average person? This is a country of 300,000,000 people, so what is average? A large proportion has had some kind of self defense training or military experience. So what is average?

Mach said:
I haven't mentioned legality, and the OP poll doesn't either. There are many improper, bad, unethical things people do, that are not illegal, as I'm sure you know. We're talking risks to ones safety. If some perceives someone else is putting them at risk, they may perceive that as aggressive behavior.
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If they are put "at risk" yes. Simply following someone does not put anyone at risk automatically.
 
sharon said:
Like what? What sort of raving nutter follows people for no reason?
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I think whats going on here is a disconnect how women react to the feeling of being followed and how men react to it.....Everyone with half a brain knows women are mostly the victims and they have every right to be more sensitive about any feeling of being followed....they had better be
 
joko104 said:
From the 911 call, do you think it was suspicious and dangerous for Martin to turn and come angrily towards Zimmerman with Martin putting his hand in his pocket as he did - until he saw and maybe heard Zimmerman on the phone to the police department?
Click to expand...


I think they both made some bad miscalculations. Zimmerman should've listened to dispatch and not gotten out of his vehicle. Martin should have restrained himself from being overly aggressive in confronting Zimmerman about following him. If either man had exercised a little measure of prudence, this may not have happened at all.

Zimmerman's following of Martin was not prudent and could be construed as suspicious by Martin. However, the key to unraveling the incident, IMO, is the final seconds leading up to the physical fight, and who initiated it. I'd have to have more evidence that Zimmerman was the initiator or escalator of the physical fight before I could convict him of anything other than being imprudent, which is not a crime.

As it is, without an eyewitness other than Zimmerman, available evidence (Z's testimony, Z's injuries, eyewitness seeing Treyvon on top of Zimmerman beating him) I could not convict Z of anything because of a lack of evidence of criminal wrongdoing. If following someone is a criminal act, then a lot of charity workers, religious tract-givers, brochure passer-outers, raffle-ticket and insurance salesmen, not to mention persons of amorous intent, are guilty too.


As I said, when I detect someone following me I evade if I can, or confront if I can't. When I confront, I put my back to something safe and loudly inquire why they are following me while they are still a safe distance away. I don't run up on them and attack them without knowing what is going on.

I personally consider the Zimmerman/Martin case to be a comedy-of-errors with a tragic ending, where both men acted poorly and contributed to the situation.... but from what info I have I don't think there is evidence to convict Z of murder-2nd.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Is following someone an aggressive act?

Simple question, simple answer.

I don't believe that it is. If it was then police would not be able to legally follow people. Investigators (PI's) would not legally be able to do it. Paparazzi would not be able to do it.
Click to expand...


As private citizen, it would be a socially aggressive act. The only reason to follow someone, secretively, is to discover what they are doing without their knowledge or permission. Totally creepy thing to do.
 
joko104 said:
From the 911 call, do you think it was suspicious and dangerous for Martin to turn and come angrily towards Zimmerman with Martin putting his hand in his pocket as he did - until he saw and maybe heard Zimmerman on the phone to the police department?
Click to expand...

I don't think there's anything suspicious about Martin becoming angry and confronting Zimmerman. It wa sdangerous, but it certainly wasn't suspicious.

He ran from Zimmerman. According to Zimmerman's own account of events from the 911 call we know that Martin ran. He clearly felt threatened as evidenced by his fight or flight response. When he found that Zimmerman was still following him, he realized his previously attempted flight response had failed. Instinct takes over in such situations. When flight fails, fight is all that remains.

Was it dangerous? Absolutely. When one has a fight or flight reaction it usually is dangerous.

But it's also a very reasonable biologically induced reaction on Martin's part. There's nothing at all suspicious about it.
 
sharon said:
Like what? What sort of raving nutter follows people for no reason?
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If a kid had thrown a rock at my car, I might try to follow him home. If I saw someone hit-and-run, I might follow him until I could "see" the driver and get the license number of the car. If someone accosted the kids who wait in my drive-way for the school bus? I might follow him (on foot or by car) until the police arrived. I can think of dozens of reasons that don't involve raving nutters.
 
Tucker Case said:
If they turned around and confronted you about following them, would you not think that this was a perfectly reasonable behavior on their part?
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Of course. I would if they noticed me expect it. If it was someone I was following due to being suspicious though, I would most likely disengage if possible.

Tucker Case said:
If they turned around and confronted you about following them, would you not think that this was a perfectly reasonable behavior on their part?
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Yep. Have not said otherwise... I hope, lol.

Tucker Case said:
NOt really. If a stranger is following you, it would be very stupid to not take precautions.
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Difference between taking precautions and freaking out.

Tucker Case said:
As I asked above, would you think it's unreasonable for someone you are following to confront you about it?
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Of course not.
 
Yes, that is what the Trayvon Martin case should establish as law. If anyone is following you - or even just trying to watch here you are going - you have an absolute right to go beat that person to death. I think even if just someone looks at you in an intimidating way you should be able to beat that person to death. I mean no one should have to take any intimidation.

Afterall, the crap about there is no such thing as verbal provocation justifying violence or reasonableness really needs to go. Tough guys like me really should rule the world anyway. In fact, STG really should be changed to AWI - Attack When Intimidated. The Trayvon Martin way.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Is following someone an aggressive act?

Simple question, simple answer.

I don't believe that it is. If it was then police would not be able to legally follow people. Investigators (PI's) would not legally be able to do it. Paparazzi would not be able to do it.
Click to expand...

Following someone is not an act of aggression. If you suspect someone is following you then you ask the individual if they are following you and why,because it could be just nothing more than a coincidence. I know from driving it sometimes appears as though I am following someone else in a car for several blocks or someone else is following me for several blocks in car.The same thing when walking. It may appear I am following someone on foot or that someone is following me on foot when walking. All it means is that we we are currently traveling in the same direction. Now if the person following you has made verbal threats to do bodily harm to you, then you can interpret that as an act of aggression.
 
lpast said:
I think whats going on here is a disconnect how women react to the feeling of being followed and how men react to it.....Everyone with half a brain knows women are mostly the victims and they have every right to be more sensitive about any feeling of being followed....they had better be
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Long ago I had a guy follow me onto a train in the Barcelona train station and I was looking the wrong way.. trying to avoid a guy in cowboy boots who had been following me for 30 minutes.

I found my self incapacitated in a straight skirt and high heels.. Guess who pulled the Spaniard off of me and threw him bodily off the train?

The Texan in the boots.
 
Blackdog said:
What is the average person? This is a country of 300,000,000 people, so what is average? A large proportion has had some kind of self defense training or military experience. So what is average?
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I'm asking you.
You appear very resistant to adressing this question (the OP) in the abstract, not sure why that is.

If they are put "at risk" yes. Simply following someone does not put anyone at risk automatically.
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That's precisely the point though, we are talking about their perception of their own risk/safety. They cannot know, by virtue of being non-omniscient, if they are REALLY at risk or not. That's a philosophical question, it has nothing to do with how we operate in the real world.

I think you are sort of agreeing that being followed is suspicious, a "potential risk", and otherwise should put someone "on guard" so to speak. But that it's not a sufficient threat to warrant physical retalation. I think in general, I'd agree to that...is that your view?
 
Goshin said:
I think they both made some bad miscalculations. Zimmerman should've listened to dispatch and not gotten out of his vehicle. Martin should have restrained himself from being overly aggressive in confronting Zimmerman about following him. If either man had exercised a little measure of prudence, this may not have happened at all.

Zimmerman's following of Martin was not prudent and could be construed as suspicious by Martin. However, the key to unraveling the incident, IMO, is the final seconds leading up to the physical fight, and who initiated it. I'd have to have more evidence that Zimmerman was the initiator or escalator of the physical fight before I could convict him of anything other than being imprudent, which is not a crime.

As it is, without an eyewitness other than Zimmerman, available evidence (Z's testimony, Z's injuries, eyewitness seeing Treyvon on top of Zimmerman beating him) I could not convict Z of anything because of a lack of evidence of criminal wrongdoing. If following someone is a criminal act, then a lot of charity workers, religious tract-givers, brochure passer-outers, raffle-ticket and insurance salesmen, not to mention persons of amorous intent, are guilty too.


As I said, when I detect someone following me I evade if I can, or confront if I can't. When I confront, I put my back to something safe and loudly inquire why they are following me while they are still a safe distance away. I don't run up on them and attack them without knowing what is going on.

I personally consider the Zimmerman/Martin case to be a comedy-of-errors with a tragic ending, where both men acted poorly and contributed to the situation.... but from what info I have I don't think there is evidence to convict Z of murder-2nd.
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Goshen I believe that zimmerman will be construed as the aggressor for not backing off when dispatch told him to and waiting for the police.
I have no clue what transpired after he was told to back off and wait and neither does anyone else at this point....but I believe the jury will consider that aggressive...i agree with your post
 
sharon said:
Like what? What sort of raving nutter follows people for no reason?
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I've had people follow me for the following reasons:

To hand me back my wallet I'd forgotten.
To give me a religious tract.
To give me a brochure, sales paper, or similar.
To get me to sign their petition.
To try to sell me something.
To ask me for a handout.
Because they thought I was someone else.
Because they thought I was cute and wanted to catch up with me and talk to me. (women, mostly... but a couple gay guys too. :doh )
Misunderstanding like the anecdote I told a page ago.
and yes... at least a couple of times people were following me with criminal intent.



When I turn to confront a follower, I keep the potential threat in mind but don't assume they must have ill intent.... you never know.
 
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