View Poll Results: Is following someone an aggressive act?

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  • Yes.

    27 61.36%
  • No.

    17 38.64%
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Thread: Following someone.

  1. #321
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    That kind of nullifies the point of having a SYG law, though. If someone comes at you in what a reasonable person would assume is a threatening manner, you aren't expected to ask them if they are only trying to give you a hug first before you act. They might actually be trying to give you a hug, but it's not reasonable to place the burden of communication on the potential huggee.

    The onus of communication falls entirely on Z, regardless of what else transpired. He was the person who was engaging in behaviors which were found to be intimidating/threatening towards another person. At worst, M's behaviors can only be considered intimidating or threatening to property prior to the actual altercation starting.
    To your first point. I am a firm believer in knowing as much as possible, and keeping a constant threat awareness. Being followed is at best a "minor" threat but I do concede that once a person is aware they are being followed they should probably be on some sort of alert and ready to react if necessary. In the case of someone preparing for an assault......well, you're going to know pretty quickly what's going to happen in that situation. Again it's about assessing the situation first and foremost, and if you feel threatened there is nothing wrong with verbalizing it to the persuant.

    To your second point.....I absolutely agree. Zimmerman very well should have verbalized that there were bad things prior in the neighborhood and it's very possible Martin would have given the proper explanation that he was simply walking back from the store. My biggest issue is who actually initiated the physical confrontation, if it was Zimmerman he's guilty of negligent homicide or manslaughter, if it was Martin he would have been guilty of assault and Zimmerman dependent on his perception of whether he would be badly injured or killed would determine whether lethal force was justified. However the verbal lag does not excuse the physical altercation.....on that I think we probably agree.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  2. #322
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    Zimmerman had all the information.

    He was profiling.. He knew the police were on the way. He was armed. He knew the protocols for NW. He got out of his SUV and followed on foot.

    All Trayvon could have known was that a stranger was following him in a "high crime" area.
    Well, if you are watching the neighborhood you are profiling. Anyone you don't recognize in a high crime area is a suspect. The police being "on the way" doesn't mean much if they aren't there, on the way could be 5 seconds or 25 minutes.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  3. #323
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    To your first point. I am a firm believer in knowing as much as possible, and keeping a constant threat awareness. Being followed is at best a "minor" threat but I do concede that once a person is aware they are being followed they should probably be on some sort of alert and ready to react if necessary. In the case of someone preparing for an assault......well, you're going to know pretty quickly what's going to happen in that situation. Again it's about assessing the situation first and foremost, and if you feel threatened there is nothing wrong with verbalizing it to the persuant.

    To your second point.....I absolutely agree. Zimmerman very well should have verbalized that there were bad things prior in the neighborhood and it's very possible Martin would have given the proper explanation that he was simply walking back from the store. My biggest issue is who actually initiated the physical confrontation, if it was Zimmerman he's guilty of negligent homicide or manslaughter, if it was Martin he would have been guilty of assault and Zimmerman dependent on his perception of whether he would be badly injured or killed would determine whether lethal force was justified. However the verbal lag does not excuse the physical altercation.....on that I think we probably agree.

    I agree, which is why what happened after Martin fled is so important. If Z pursued him, M reacting violently is not unreasonable due to simple fight or flight instincts. When flight is taken away as an option, the fearful only have the fight option. Z pursuing Martin would have taken away his ability to engage in a flight response.

    But if it was just an exchange of words that turned violent, it comes down to both people making egregious mistakes.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  4. #324
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Well, if you are watching the neighborhood you are profiling. Anyone you don't recognize in a high crime area is a suspect....
    that's pretty paranoid.

  5. #325
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    that's pretty paranoid.
    Not if there have been documented reports of burglary and other crimes which from what I understand is the case. Every stranger is a suspect when your area has been victimized, and sometimes your neighbors are "strangers" then too.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  6. #326
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    that's pretty paranoid.

    To be fair, that's a sign of a good NW's in a high crime area.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  7. #327
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I agree, which is why what happened after Martin fled is so important. If Z pursued him, M reacting violently is not unreasonable due to simple fight or flight instincts. When flight is taken away as an option, the fearful only have the fight option. Z pursuing Martin would have taken away his ability to engage in a flight response.

    But if it was just an exchange of words that turned violent, it comes down to both people making egregious mistakes.
    I still have a problem with the 911 operator asking him to back off BUT report on the situation. That kind of bugs me from a standpoint that if I were Zimmerman I would think "well, how can I do both? I have to have eyes on him to report the situation." but if Zimmerman took it upon himself to confront Martin then it changes things drastically.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  8. #328
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Not if there have been documented reports of burglary and other crimes which from what I understand is the case. Every stranger is a suspect when your area has been victimized, and sometimes your neighbors are "strangers" then too.
    Were all the burglaries committed by black males?

  9. #329
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I still have a problem with the 911 operator asking him to back off BUT report on the situation. That kind of bugs me from a standpoint that if I were Zimmerman I would think "well, how can I do both? I have to have eyes on him to report the situation." but if Zimmerman took it upon himself to confront Martin then it changes things drastically.
    One of my sons is in NW in his neighborhood in Charlotte.. He think GZ is a raving nutter.

    They don't do "patrols".. or chase people.. They observe and report. SOP.

  10. #330
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    Were all the burglaries committed by black males?
    Doesn't matter. Zimmerman was watching a stranger to the neighborhood, I'm pretty sure the guy wasn't thinking about the race at the time. There were two versions of the audio of the call and the unedited one shows that the only time Z spoke of the possible race was when asked, and then when asked specifically if he could determine that he said "he looks to be black" if he wasn't giving a positive like "yeah, he's black" I believe race was the last thing he looked at. That being said, I don't care who the person in my neighborhood is or what they look like, I'm making sure they aren't casing anyone's property, of course this comes down to when I notice anything because there is no NW on this block.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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