View Poll Results: Is following someone an aggressive act?

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  • Yes.

    27 61.36%
  • No.

    17 38.64%
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Thread: Following someone.

  1. #311
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    but it is grounds for a SYG defense.
    No. Stand your ground defense states that you were not running away from an illegal action where you have the right to engage. IOW the defense is dependent upon you having the legal right to engage in current activity, the attack on your person was an illegal act, and thus you weren't compelled to flee.

    EDIT - Following is not illegal. Now, if you are asked to back off that is potentially a different story.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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  2. #312
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    No. Stand your ground defense states that you were not running away from an illegal action where you have the right to engage. IOW the defense is dependent upon you having the legal right to engage in current activity, the attack on your person was an illegal act, and thus you weren't compelled to flee.

    EDIT - Following is not illegal. Now, if you are asked to back off that is potentially a different story.

    Actually, a SYG defense doesn't require the other person to be doing something illegal. The person using the defense just has to be able to show that a reasonable person would expect themselves to become the victim of an illegal act in the same situation.
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  3. #313
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Actually, a SYG defense doesn't require the other person to be doing something illegal. The person using the defense just has to be able to show that a reasonable person would expect themselves to become the victim of an illegal act in the same situation.
    Hmm. Okay, I thought there actually had to be some form of illegal activity such as assault, or battery, etc. and I have come to the understanding that SYG is only admissable if the claimant was not engaged in illegal activity already. I am not conviced that following someone meets that standard under most circumstances, though there are times anyone would be creeped out.

    EDIT - I know where I got the legal standard confused now. SYG applies absolutely to your home under the presumption of "threat of bodily harm" and your vehicle as an extension. Legal activity isn't covered rather it's applied to where you have a legal right to be, but one must prove that the force was necessary to protect themselves or others from harm and that the action was necessary to accompish that.
    Last edited by LaMidRighter; 05-14-12 at 03:53 PM.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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  4. #314
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I am not conviced that following someone meets that standard under most circumstances, though there are times anyone would be creeped out.
    I agree. I think the fact that Z's own 911 account has M fleeing can potentially create such circumstances, though.

    If, as a result of being creeped out by someone following you, you actually attempt to flee from them, only to discover that the person continues to pursue/follow you, it's not exactly unreasonable to think that you are about to become the victim of a crime.

    Ultimately, it comes down to whether or not Z continued to try and follow M after he fled. To me, that's a much more important factor in the equation since it would be enough to warrant M having the right to stand his ground.
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  5. #315
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I agree. I think the fact that Z's own 911 account has M fleeing can potentially create such circumstances, though.

    If, as a result of being creeped out by someone following you, you actually attempt to flee from them, only to discover that the person continues to pursue/follow you, it's not exactly unreasonable to think that you are about to become the victim of a crime.

    Ultimately, it comes down to whether or not Z continued to try and follow M after he fled. To me, that's a much more important factor in the equation since it would be enough to warrant M having the right to stand his ground.
    This is why people should communicate before they act. Either way both of these people contributed to what happened and it's up to a court to decide who's more at fault, this could have been avoided by Zimmerman simply saying "listen, we've had some trouble in the neighborhood and I'm just keeping watch" then Martin could have easily said "I'm just coming back from the store, I'm not a threat". God knows who actually escalated the violence but it could have been avoided. It's possible Martin thought Zimmerman was out to hurt him and it's possible Zimmerman thought "a runner is guilty" at the same time and that will always be a tragic communication fail.
    As to who is more wrong.......couldn't tell you.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    This is why people should communicate before they act. Either way both of these people contributed to what happened and it's up to a court to decide who's more at fault, this could have been avoided by Zimmerman simply saying "listen, we've had some trouble in the neighborhood and I'm just keeping watch" then Martin could have easily said "I'm just coming back from the store, I'm not a threat". God knows who actually escalated the violence but it could have been avoided. It's possible Martin thought Zimmerman was out to hurt him and it's possible Zimmerman thought "a runner is guilty" at the same time and that will always be a tragic communication fail.
    As to who is more wrong.......couldn't tell you.
    Zimmerman had all the information.

    He was profiling.. He knew the police were on the way. He was armed. He knew the protocols for NW. He got out of his SUV and followed on foot.

    All Trayvon could have known was that a stranger was following him in a "high crime" area.

  7. #317
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    This is why people should communicate before they act.
    That kind of nullifies the point of having a SYG law, though. If someone comes at you in what a reasonable person would assume is a threatening manner, you aren't expected to ask them if they are only trying to give you a hug first before you act. They might actually be trying to give you a hug, but it's not reasonable to place the burden of communication on the potential huggee.

    The onus of communication falls entirely on Z, regardless of what else transpired. He was the person who was engaging in behaviors which were found to be intimidating/threatening towards another person. At worst, M's behaviors can only be considered intimidating or threatening to property prior to the actual altercation starting.
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  8. #318
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    All Trayvon could have known was that a stranger was following him in a "high crime" area.
    Martin fled from Z, which indicates that he felt threatened by Z. Z made teh assumption that M felt threatened because he was "up to no good', but since Martin was not actually doing anything wrong, we know that assumption is false.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  9. #319
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Martin fled from Z, which indicates that he felt threatened by Z. Z made teh assumption that M felt threatened because he was "up to no good', but since Martin was not actually doing anything wrong, we know that assumption is false.
    many Zimmerman supporters would respond with: "can you prove he was wasn't up to no good?"

  10. #320
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    many Zimmerman supporters would respond with: "can you prove he was wasn't up to no good?"
    I would say to them that the presumption of innocence is Martin's to enjoy, even posthumously, as well as Zimmerman's.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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