View Poll Results: Is following someone an aggressive act?

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  • Yes.

    27 61.36%
  • No.

    17 38.64%
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Thread: Following someone.

  1. #251
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    That's a situation where one expects others to follow them, since everyone is presumed to be headed in the same direction in a parking garage. If you followed them to their car, however, it could have been aggressive.



    Same situation as above. People expect others to be following them in those situations since everyone is already known to be headed the same direction.

    Context is far more important than intent. You can ignore it, but that won't make you right.
    You realize context and intent are the same ****ing thing in the manner that you are addressing it right?
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  2. #252
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    You realize context and intent are the same ****ing thing in the manner that you are addressing it right?
    Not even close. The intent is determined by the follower. The context is determined by the situation that the person being followed is in. Two totally different things. By a tremendously wide margin.

    The context is so important that a person who intends to do harm to the followed person is not actually acting aggressively by following them in the contexts that you describe (where the followed party has an expectation of others going in the same direction as they are).
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 04-20-12 at 06:32 PM.
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  3. #253
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Using the non-legal definition of the word, of course. Legally, they would not be considered stalkers.
    On somewhat rare occasion behaviors that are sociologically unacceptable do get legalized.

    Usually there is money involved when that happens.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

  4. #254
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Not really. You just admitted that the person's intent is only a factor when it's already known to you. When it isn't known beforehand, it becomes an aggressive act by default. If you pulled out a gun and shot a stranger who pointed a gun at you with the intent of showing you how nice the gun is (but failed to let you know this beforehand), you'd be able to claim self-defense and few would disagree with your actions, even though they didn't have any intent to shoot you.
    This is true. However under known circumstances the act of aiming the gun isn't IMO aggressive, a stranger would be an idiot to pull on me without giving me a heads up.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  5. #255
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Not even close. The intent is determined by the follower. The context is determined by the situation that the person being followed is in. Two totally different things. By a tremendously wide margin.

    The context is so important that a person who intends to do harm to the followed person is not actually acting aggressively by following them in the contexts that you describe (where the followed party has an expectation of others going in the same direction as they are).
    Aggression is not determined by the fears of others, but by the actions and intents of the "perpetrator".
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  6. #256
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Sure...if by conceding you mean that we agree that you are referring only to extremists when you say 'liberals' then we should definitely move on. Im sure the liberals here that support gun ownership, police, and have actually served in the military will be comfortable with your description.
    As I said, when comparing ideologies, it doesn't do us much good to use members of a party who hold moderate, centrist viewpoints. If we compare communists with capitalists, will it do us much good to throw in a large number of those in the middle? I'm not pushing an extremist viewpoint. I'm only trying to objectively examine differences between two very different ideologies, not two individuals with moderate belief systems.

    In essence, some of these "liberals" may not even consider themselves "liberals" but rather "centrist" or "moderate." Think of the blue dog democrats, conservative democrats, or moderate republicans.

    If you're referring to Redress, then please stop. Redress self-identifies as "very liberal." When someone is "very" anything, it usually means extreme, consistent, or far from the center. Yet Redress is more of a moderate/centrist democrat.

  7. #257
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    This is true. However under known circumstances the act of aiming the gun isn't IMO aggressive, a stranger would be an idiot to pull on me without giving me a heads up.
    In known circumstances, sure. But that speaks to context rather than intent.
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  8. #258
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Aggression is not determined by the fears of others, but by the actions and intents of the "perpetrator".
    Please take note of the distinct lack of fear being taken into consideration in my posts. Once you take note of it, then you may be able to present a real rebuttal.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  9. #259
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    In known circumstances, sure. But that speaks to context rather than intent.
    Aggression is usually in a sense the forceful violation of a person's rights. It's typically use of force or coercion to illicit something. This gets back to both points, following someone to "keep an eye on the area" may or may not be aggressive in that maybe someone is on my property and they need to be forced off, a kid walking in a neighborhood late at night may illicit a response of some sort, but to follow in order to run that kid off would be aggressive, to keep an eye out is not necessarily. Just like language, there is a difference between a joking "don't make me kick your ass" and a more serious "dude, I'm going to kick your ass". All of this leads us back to the intent of the action, my buddy showing me his gun......not aggressive, a person I don't know pointing a gun with a requisite demand like; "Give me your wallet" or "Leave my daughter alone" or the ever popular "Get the **** away from me!" are all aggressive and the intent is similar in that an outcome is illicited, however the differences are in motivation and legal standing.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  10. #260
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    Re: Following someone.

    I do not think the act of "following" is in and of itself an aggressive act. The intent does play a part, but how can anyone ever know the intent of someone else?

    Just following someone does not constitute "stalking" nor make the follower an "aggressor", some other action must take place for it to be an act of aggression. There are lots of reasons you might follow someone and many reasons you may THINK you are being followed. Our society trends to focus on the negative and we always hear about the incidents where people are hurt in some way. Why don't we hear about how people help each other? Maybe a young man follows an elderly lady to make sure she makes it home OK, maybe someone is followed because they appear suspicious, etc... If you think you are being followed cross the street, keep an eye on the windows so you can see reflections, call someone. There are many things you can do, but you can't keep safe from a bullet coming your way.

    I am a supporter of the 2nd Amendment but I was a bit surprised to find out that in the 6 months concealed carry has been legal in Wisconsin the state has issued 100,000 permits. Out of those 100,000 people how many hold stereotypes? How many are already scared? Does having the gun on them make them feel more protected or more scared? I think that in addition safety training, people obtaining weapons should have to undergo some type of sensitivity training.

    I'm way OT now. Anyway... if someone was following me and I was alone I would probably get on my phone with someone and then turn and ask why they were following me. And then I would probably feel like an idiot because they were not following me, just going the same way or they thought but was cute.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

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