View Poll Results: Is following someone an aggressive act?

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  • Yes.

    27 61.36%
  • No.

    17 38.64%
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Thread: Following someone.

  1. #141
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    No. Zimmerman did not say that. His father said that.
    According to the Sanford Police, Zimmerman said it.

    Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel

    Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  2. #142
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Yes, all assaults are the fault of the victim. No one assaults anyone else unless they have been frightened into doing so. Nothing is more obvious. You know, similar to all rape victims really were asking for it.
    I see you are more interested in idiocy and strawmen than having an intelligent conversation on this.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 04-17-12 at 09:41 AM.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  3. #143
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Yes, of course.
    Why? Could it be that the 'mere' act of following your daughter might be something you perceive as a 'threatening' act and you would then be fearful for her well being and disinclined to just roll with it...see if anything bad actually happens, or trust that the police could make everything all better...and in time?

  4. #144
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Zimmerman got out of his SUV to follow Trayvon on foot. When a dispatch employee asked Zimmerman if he was following the 17-year-old, Zimmerman said yes. The dispatcher told Zimmerman he did not need to do that.

    There is about a one-minute gap during which police say they're not sure what happened.

    Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

    Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police.


    Hmmmm..

    Wonder who GZ was planning to call since the cops were on their way.........

  5. #145
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    There is an "earwitness" account, though. Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend when things went physical. That has been confirmed by the phone records. From her testimony we can learn a lot about Martin's mental state (nervous about the stranger following him) and a little bit about how the altercation began (We know that Martin verbally confronted Zimmerman before the altercation began). We have to throw out the girlfriend's conjecture about Zimmerman pushing Martin because there is no way she could know who did the pushing based on what she heard. But we do now that her testimony contradicts Zimmerman's claims about being attacked from behind.





    Actually, all self-defense cases are held to the same burden of proof I am talking about. It prevents guilty people from lying their way free. We have a contradiction in reports of how the initial confrontation went down. The more credible account is Martin's girlfriend's account because it makes sense in the circumstances. Zimmerman's account doesn't make any sense given teh facts that are known.



    That's not an entirely accurate portrayal. You are completely ignoring out Martin's clear attempt to flee from Zimmerman. That's a very important fact that should not be discounted. The fact that he first attempted to flee indicates that he meant Zimmerman no harm. Zimmerman continuing to follow Martin after Martin attempted to flee does give Martin the right to physically defend himself. It goes back to biology. Fight or flight. If you remove the flight option by negating it's efficacy, you limit it to a fight response.

    That's why backing any frightened animal into a corner is a guaranteed way yo be attacked by an animal. Humans are no different.



    And this applies to Martin, first and foremost. It is an undeniable fact that the initiator of threatening behavior in this situation was Zimmerman.

    Martin did not provoke the incident (he was doing nothing illegal).

    Martin did believe himself in imminent danger (as evidenced by his fight or flight response). This is also confirmed by the girlfriend's testimony.

    Biologically speaking, once flight is removed as an option, any threatened animal (including humans) will resort to fight responses. That's a perfectly reasonable response.

    Martin met all three criteria for self-defense in this situation. That's based entirely on the facts. Even if we remove the girlfriend's testimony and focus entirely on Zimmerman's own words from the 911 call, we can see that Martin met all three criteria.

    Martin's attempt to escape from Zimmerman is of absolute importance.



    Again, your analysis ignores a major piece of evidence. Martin's attempt to flee, reported by Zimmerman himself. You make a major unsupported assumption as well, one that is especially ironic given the fact that you seem to be demonizing making assumptions about body language (despite the fact that most body language is both universal and predictable once the emotional frame of mind is known, as it is here for Zimmerman).

    You claim, without any evidence, that the reason that Martin "backed off" was because he saw that Zimmerman was on the phone to 911. This is complete conjecture on your part. You claim one second that we cannot know Martin's state of mind, but then you say that "available info" allows us to understand his motivations.

    At least my assumptions are based on known psychological phenomenon that are relatively universal (body language, fight or flight responses). Your is complete nonsense. You cannot possibly know why Martin backed off. But when you say he backed off because he saw Zimmerman on the phone, it gives the false impression that he was guilty of something. That something about Zimmerman being on the phone made Martin nervous in and of itself (i.e. that Zimmerman is calling the cops).

    There's nothing wrong with making certain assumptions, but only if those assumptions are reasonable in nature. An assumption based on known biological reactions to certain stimuli, for example, is a perfectly reasonable assumptions. An assumption about motivations based on nothing but imagination, however, is not.








    I think you demonize Martin for having a reasonable biological response to a threat. Zimmerman was the instigator, that much is known.




    Exactly. And there is plenty of evidence indicating that in this case. In fact, Zimmerman's own account of events helps build a case against him having a right to self-defense.

    Ive read this entire post twice and I agree with it....one point I would like to stress...Zimmerman being told to back off and WAIT for the police to arrive by the dispatcher before the shooting took place in my mind makes him culpable to a degree...if he had obeyed the dispatcher and backed off martin the shooting may very well have never had to occur....So far I have not read nor seen any reason that zimmerman was forced to have physical contact with martin after the warning by the dispatcher.

  6. #146
    global liberation

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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Have to be 18 to legally own a handgun in florida
    I thnk you're wrong. 18 to buy/own long-gun (18"); no registration, background check or proof of anything except ID required.

    21 to own a handgun. I'm not sure if a permit is required, as in north carolina in Florida, but I'm sure it is registered.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    Did somebody get caught stalking?
    Seriously...

    Z chased M and drew his gun while screaming racial epitaphs...

    M set the ambush up, has been perm-banned from highschool, is a member of the crips/bloods, stole the Skittles and was escaping a rape scene...





    Fkn crazy people are everywhere. I mean here, at DP. Fortunately, people in this village (insert: irl) haven't heard anything about the Obama-endorsed race-War, Kim-Jong-ButtHole's failed boner, American politics, Israel, abortion, gay rights or the rest of the sht that you people completely lose your fkg minds over. /story

  7. #147
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I thnk you're wrong. 18 to buy/own long-gun (18"); no registration, background check or proof of anything except ID required.

    21 to own a handgun. I'm not sure if a permit is required, as in north carolina in Florida, but I'm sure it is registered.




    Seriously...

    Z chased M and drew his gun while screaming racial epitaphs...

    M set the ambush up, has been perm-banned from highschool, is a member of the crips/bloods, stole the Skittles and was escaping a rape scene...





    Fkn crazy people are everywhere. I mean here, at DP. Fortunately, people in this village (insert: irl) haven't heard anything about the Obama-endorsed race-War, Kim-Jong-ButtHole's failed boner, American politics, Israel, abortion, gay rights or the rest of the sht that you people completely lose your fkg minds over. /story
    Its 18 fla state law and 21 by federal law.

    What is the legal age to purchase a gun in Florida

  8. #148
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I thnk you're wrong. 18 to buy/own long-gun (18"); no registration, background check or proof of anything except ID required.

    21 to own a handgun. I'm not sure if a permit is required, as in north carolina in Florida, but I'm sure it is registered.




    Seriously...

    Z chased M and drew his gun while screaming racial epitaphs...

    M set the ambush up, has been perm-banned from highschool, is a member of the crips/bloods, stole the Skittles and was escaping a rape scene...


    Fkn crazy people are everywhere. I mean here, at DP. Fortunately, people in this village (insert: irl) haven't heard anything about the Obama-endorsed race-War, Kim-Jong-ButtHole's failed boner, American politics, Israel, abortion, gay rights or the rest of the sht that you people completely lose your fkg minds over. /story
    You don't have to guess.. Florida gun laws are spelled out clearly on line.

    GZ followed an adult black male home March 2011.. six months before NW was formed.. GZ was evidently aggressive. The homeowner complained to both the police and the HOA.

  9. #149
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    Re: Following someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Thanks for that. The article I read was an interview with the father. I didn't realize Zimmerman himself had given that accounting to police.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  10. #150
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    Re: Following someone.

    Anyway, following is aggressive (see my vote). I may or may not speak, given situation.

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