View Poll Results: How should drunks be charged?

Voters
49. You may not vote on this poll
  • First degree murder

    5 10.20%
  • Second degree murder

    8 16.33%
  • manslaughter

    28 57.14%
  • Other

    8 16.33%
Page 9 of 16 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 156

Thread: Drunk Drivers

  1. #81
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Why do liberals always play this still game? Personalize and extend.

    We are talking about drunk driving, and no, I never have.
    Just want to make sure that none of the people calling for the heads of drunk drivers have ever done it themselves. After all, I'm SURE that they wouldn't want to be sanctimonious hypocrites. As for driving while on a cell phone or while sleepy, the reason I brought it up is because the situation is exactly the same (i.e. dangerous road behavior that people KNOW they shouldn't do), so I want to make sure we don't have any sanctimonious hypocrites who have done THESE things while calling for the heads of drunk drivers.

    And I noticed you didn't answer the question about those. I wonder why.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  2. #82
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I vote we require all three-time DUI offenders' cars like pink zebras. Oooo! And with reflective paint. We may as well know what we're dealing with.
    I genuinely like the "scarlet letter" approach to DUIs, much more than I like the visceral off-with-their-heads approach.

    In my home state of Ohio, they have special yellow license plates for people who have been convicted of DUIs. Ostensibly, this is to make it easier for cops to identify people who are potentially dangerous on the roads...but in practice, there's also a bit of public shaming involved. I actually like this practice, and think that humiliation is probably a fairly effective punishment for DUIs. Maybe not for the hardcore alcoholics, but at least for the irresponsible college fratboys.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-13-12 at 10:32 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  3. #83
    Sage
    Arbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    07-12-16 @ 01:32 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,395
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Just want to make sure that none of the people calling for the heads of drunk drivers have ever done it themselves. After all, I'm SURE that they wouldn't want to be sanctimonious hypocrites. As for driving while on a cell phone or while sleepy, the reason I brought it up is because the situation is exactly the same (i.e. dangerous road behavior that people KNOW they shouldn't do), so I want to make sure we don't have any sanctimonious hypocrites who have done THESE things while calling for the heads of drunk drivers.

    And I noticed you didn't answer the question about those. I wonder why.
    Nobody is calling for the heads of those that talk on the cell phone or drive while tired. You are continuing the normal liberal bait and switch tactic.

    And BTW, 'humiliation' of a drunk driver will not save your family when they are on an intersecting course with that drunk driver in the future.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  4. #84
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Nobody is calling for the heads of those that talk on the cell phone or drive while tired.
    Your reading comprehension skills are not very strong, I'm afraid.
    Oh well.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  5. #85
    Sage
    Arbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    07-12-16 @ 01:32 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,395
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Your reading comprehension skills are not very strong, I'm afraid.
    Oh well.

    Yes, more of the typical left bs. Go figure.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  6. #86
    Dungeon Master
    Hooter Babe

    DiAnna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Northern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,683
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Drunk Drivers

    @Kandahar: Not everyone drives when they've been drinking. I don't. I don't even know a person who has gotten a DUI. I do know a person who drove drunk every day of her life, and was not arrested for it once. My alcoholic mother. Back in the day, drunk driving was pretty much ignored, the thought being that "every body did it." Legislators certainly did it, and they were not about to make a law against something they themselves engaged in.

    You may scoff at MADD, but that group was so sick of scraping their children off the bumpers of stumbling drunks' cars that they literally forced drunk driving legislation to be passed. It took decades, and uncountable deaths, but it's on the books now and I want to see it stay there... and be strengthened.

    Don't put your own guilty conscience onto others, please, and don't let yourself be deceived by the "everybody does it so it's not that big a deal" idea. Everybody doesn't do it. And yes, it IS a big deal.

  7. #87
    Guru
    Aderleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    04-08-16 @ 06:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,294

    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    How should they be charged?

    I'm leaning towards first degree murder. They are clearly scum of the earth who are unworthy of life.
    If they actually kill someone, they're likely to get manslaughter, which I think is reasonable (since they never intended to kill anyone). If they haven't actually killed or hurt anyone, they should be charged more or less as they are charged - with DUI's.

  8. #88
    Educator barbarian_style's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Existing between 2 entities of darkness
    Last Seen
    02-01-14 @ 03:31 AM
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    761

    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    That's all well and good, but none of that is any indication of clear intent to go out and commit murder. The legal system places specific definitions on the different levels of murder. Take it up with them.
    Don't need to in the state I live they have a charge for it already, it is called vehicular homicide. We also have a charge of vehicular manslaughter but that is for people that weren't reckless drunks.
    Last edited by barbarian_style; 04-13-12 at 11:43 PM.

  9. #89
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    @Kandahar: Not everyone drives when they've been drinking. I don't. I don't even know a person who has gotten a DUI. I do know a person who drove drunk every day of her life, and was not arrested for it once. My alcoholic mother. Back in the day, drunk driving was pretty much ignored, the thought being that "every body did it." Legislators certainly did it, and they were not about to make a law against something they themselves engaged in.
    But that's exactly my point, you say "you don't even know a person who has gotten a DUI" just before you describe your mother who regularly drove while intoxicated ("even" being the operative word there, as though getting caught would somehow be morally worse, rather than simply unluckier). I showed the statistics above...19% of young drivers are willing to ADMIT to driving while intoxicated within the last 12 months. When you expand that to people who won't admit or don't realize it, people who have done it in the past but longer than 12 months ago, and to older generations who were probably at least as irresponsible about it as today's youth, I think it's very plausible that the majority of drivers have done it at some point in their lives.

    You may scoff at MADD, but that group was so sick of scraping their children off the bumpers of stumbling drunks' cars that they literally forced drunk driving legislation to be passed. It took decades, and uncountable deaths, but it's on the books now and I want to see it stay there...
    As far as I can tell, no one in this thread is arguing it should be removed.

    and be strengthened.
    Strengthened in what way? Do you think that the majority of Americans should have served prison time?

    Don't put your own guilty conscience onto others, please, and don't let yourself be deceived by the "everybody does it so it's not that big a deal" idea.
    Before you go making assumptions, I live in a large city with a good metro system so I rarely drive anywhere, period. As far as I know, I've never driven while intoxicated...but I've done plenty of other irresponsible stuff behind the wheel (e.g. talking on the phone, messing with my iPod, driving while sleepy), and don't consider myself morally superior to those who are irresponsible in ways different from mine.

    Everybody doesn't do it.
    19% of young people are willing to admit to a pollster that they've done it in the last year.

    And yes, it IS a big deal.
    "Big deal" =/= "tougher laws." This attitude is EXACTLY the problem I have with our criminal justice system...politicians regularly try to show that they care about some crime (i.e. it's a "big deal") by toughening criminal sentences for it, regardless of whether tougher sentences are actually appropriate for the crime. This is why the US has a higher incarceration rate than any other country in world history, it's why there are more slaves of the criminal justice system today than there were slaves on southern plantations in 1860, and it's part of why some states have so utterly failed that they can't even afford to keep their huge criminal populations locked up.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-14-12 at 12:01 AM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  10. #90
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Functionally, there is very little difference. You’re posing a threat on the road. But the perception is different. With drunk driving it’s easy to get on your high horse and preach down to people. And say that punishments need to be X, Y and Z because of the dangers present. A lot of people likely do not believe that they’ve ever drunk drove before. So you get this case where it’s like “OMG! Drunk driving is worse than Hitler! You’re a terrible person if you ever done it” blah blah blah. They’ll then cite some of the limited cases wherein excessive repeat offenders finally cause a fatality and then they point their fingers “he had X DUIs! Why was he allowed to get behind a wheel? Why wasn’t he in jail?”

    The truth is that many people have drunk drove before. In many many States, 0.05 starts the DWAI/DUI laws. Lots of people have had a few drinks and gotten behind the wheel and never got caught. The vast majority of drinking and driving cases end up with the individual making it home safety (not that it’s overall as safe as driving sober, of course it’s not, but it’s very frequent). So this perception that they’ve never done it, that it is performed only by the most derelict of us all leads to this ability to crusade against it (and on some levels, it’s very much like religious zealousness). They cry for harsher punishments without thinking about who all will be caught up in the system because of it and whether or not the punishment is even appropriate.

    Neglectful driving, on the other hand, is perceived as well more frequent. Who hasn’t driven while eating, or talking on their phone, and on some level now even texting? Everyone has been neglectful t some point. So it’s seen as more accidental and even the most zealous of the anti-Drinking and Driving crusaders out there wouldn’t sell themselves up the river even if it produced safer roads. So they don’t think much about that, they’re more likely to forgive, more willing to say “well you got home without harming anyone”. It’s a lot harder to stand your high horse on your soap box for generalized neglectful driving because it’s perceived as common and that everyone (not just the derelicts) has done it at some point.

    In the end, I do agree that functionally it’s equivalent and one should face equivalent punishments. Now I wonder how many people out there would complain if talking on the phone netted about 10K worth of fines, months of classes, even more months of therapy, losing one’s license, etc. I have a feeling that people would find the punishment well too excessive once they can envision themselves being subjected to it.
    This is exactly right. It's easier for people to demonize drunk drivers because they assume (perhaps correctly, perhaps not) that "drunk drivers" refers to someone ELSE. But people who are every bit as irresponsible in other ways would never want to apply the same punishments to their own forms of vehicular irresponsibility.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-14-12 at 12:10 AM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

Page 9 of 16 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •