View Poll Results: How should drunks be charged?

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  • First degree murder

    5 10.20%
  • Second degree murder

    8 16.33%
  • manslaughter

    28 57.14%
  • Other

    8 16.33%
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Thread: Drunk Drivers

  1. #61
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefgator View Post
    My brother owned a bar. He had the same sign. I asked him one time how often he gets taken up on the offer. He said that he has one guy that uses it all the time, completely abusing the situation. Other than him, it has only been used one other time.
    Then he admitted to me, that he put the sign up at the suggestion of our uncle, who is a lawyer. It was there more for the protection of the business in case someone got a DUI fatality injury etc. After leaving the bar.
    Legal issues aside... most people who are drunk are also incapable of accurately assessing their own driving abilities at the moment. Most think/say, "Oh, I'm fine.", and honestly believe that, when in reality they're not.

  2. #62
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    How should they be charged?

    I'm leaning towards first degree murder. They are clearly scum of the earth who are unworthy of life.
    I think all of these are too steep for Drinking and Driving. Why would you charge someone with murder for DWI? How about we charge them with DUI?
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  3. #63
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Drunk driving punishments far exceed the crime currently. And part of the reason is exactly what is in your post here. It is emotionalized drivel and we're to make law and punishment off of this? No, we're finding ourselves in worse and worse situations because we are allowing emotions to dominate policy making.

    If anything we need to reverse directions on DUI laws and punishments such that we create a fair system of appropriate punishments.
    There is no question that emotions play a part in law-making..IMO, far too large a role...
    A human trait(emotions)
    I agree that the law can be improved...including the all-important record keeping.
    Rather than having an emphais on "punishment", there must be prevention instead.
    Drunks are unhappy people.

  4. #64
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Sadly we call them accidents, I don't think many actual accidents really happen. I tend to think of them more as negligent driving episodes. Knock wood I haven't caused any harm to other drivers during my lifetime, yet I have been on the receiving end of other negligent drivers vehicles, once on a motorcycle and several times in larger vehicles.

    Drunk or not I think there needs to be stiffer penalties for driving negligent(causing accidents).

    I really don't see too much difference between being drunk and just plain negligent. If there was no insurance maybe people would be more careful especially if they had to go to jail when harming another individual, instead we allow people to shrug it off "sorry your back is broken(because I was running late)but my insurance should cover that". I really wonder how people live with themselves at times.

    Stiffer penalties all around IMO.
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  5. #65
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Utility Man View Post
    I really don't see too much difference between being drunk and just plain negligent.
    Functionally, there is very little difference. You’re posing a threat on the road. But the perception is different. With drunk driving it’s easy to get on your high horse and preach down to people. And say that punishments need to be X, Y and Z because of the dangers present. A lot of people likely do not believe that they’ve ever drunk drove before. So you get this case where it’s like “OMG! Drunk driving is worse than Hitler! You’re a terrible person if you ever done it” blah blah blah. They’ll then cite some of the limited cases wherein excessive repeat offenders finally cause a fatality and then they point their fingers “he had X DUIs! Why was he allowed to get behind a wheel? Why wasn’t he in jail?”

    The truth is that many people have drunk drove before. In many many States, 0.05 starts the DWAI/DUI laws. Lots of people have had a few drinks and gotten behind the wheel and never got caught. The vast majority of drinking and driving cases end up with the individual making it home safety (not that it’s overall as safe as driving sober, of course it’s not, but it’s very frequent). So this perception that they’ve never done it, that it is performed only by the most derelict of us all leads to this ability to crusade against it (and on some levels, it’s very much like religious zealousness). They cry for harsher punishments without thinking about who all will be caught up in the system because of it and whether or not the punishment is even appropriate.

    Neglectful driving, on the other hand, is perceived as well more frequent. Who hasn’t driven while eating, or talking on their phone, and on some level now even texting? Everyone has been neglectful t some point. So it’s seen as more accidental and even the most zealous of the anti-Drinking and Driving crusaders out there wouldn’t sell themselves up the river even if it produced safer roads. So they don’t think much about that, they’re more likely to forgive, more willing to say “well you got home without harming anyone”. It’s a lot harder to stand your high horse on your soap box for generalized neglectful driving because it’s perceived as common and that everyone (not just the derelicts) has done it at some point.

    In the end, I do agree that functionally it’s equivalent and one should face equivalent punishments. Now I wonder how many people out there would complain if talking on the phone netted about 10K worth of fines, months of classes, even more months of therapy, losing one’s license, etc. I have a feeling that people would find the punishment well too excessive once they can envision themselves being subjected to it.
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  6. #66
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Utility Man View Post
    I really don't see too much difference between being drunk and just plain negligent.
    The main difference I would see is that a negligent person can "wake up" if something grabs their attention, and possibly avert an incident. The chances of a drunk person being that lucky is less likely.

    I'm taking "negligent" to mean something like day dreaming, being distracted, etc.

  7. #67
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    People don't generally decide to get drunk with the specific intent of killing someone once they get behind the wheel of a car. So no, it's not a premeditated killing. It's reckless and very dangerous behavior, but it doesn't fit in the legal definition of "premeditated murder".
    Being drunk does not excuse of following laws, you should realize this before your first drink that you may end up drunk. The question is did you know you can get drunk from drinking alcohol? Did you know that being drunk can lead to making piss poor decisions and you could be held accountable for any crimes you may commit? Ignorance of the laws is not a viable defense, unless your deemed incompetent, so even if you answered no to these, oh well.
    Last edited by barbarian_style; 04-13-12 at 03:35 PM.

  8. #68
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by barbarian_style View Post
    Being drunk does not excuse of following laws, you should realize this before your first drink that you may end up drunk. The question is did you know you can get drunk from drinking alcohol? Did you know that being drunk can lead to making piss poor decisions and you could be held accountable for any crimes you may commit? Ignorance of the laws is not a viable defense, unless your deemed incompetent, so even if you answered no to these, oh well.
    So....people are saying that DUI should be legal?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbarian_style View Post
    Being drunk does not excuse of following laws, you should realize this before your first drink that you may end up drunk. The question is did you know you can get drunk from drinking alcohol? Did you know that being drunk can lead to making piss poor decisions and you could be held accountable for any crimes you may commit? Ignorance of the laws is not a viable defense, unless your deemed incompetent, so even if you answered no to these, oh well.
    That's all well and good, but none of that is any indication of clear intent to go out and commit murder. The legal system places specific definitions on the different levels of murder. Take it up with them.
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  10. #70
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    The way I understand it, both first and second degree murder involve some kind of premeditation or malice. I don't think either applies to a drunk driver. Voluntary manslaughter involves some manner of provocation, which doesn't apply either. I would say the only logical charge is involuntary manslaughter.
    Second degree is not premeditated.

    Murder (United States law) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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