View Poll Results: How should drunks be charged?

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  • First degree murder

    5 10.20%
  • Second degree murder

    8 16.33%
  • manslaughter

    28 57.14%
  • Other

    8 16.33%
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Thread: Drunk Drivers

  1. #41
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Your reference was the initiation of Drunk Driving Laws. You'll have to show me where I said that we shouldn't have drunk driving laws.
    Nope you said "emotionalized" I am showed you the theory behind it that counters you position which started in 1913 in California.

  2. #42
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    Death Mickey, sentenced in Australia. Penalties probably differ where you are.
    Thanks.

    Causing the death of others in a traffic fatality while drunk is vehicular homicide in Texas. Causing the same while sober is vehicular manslaughter.

    I think I'm right. <crosses fingers>

  3. #43
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    Nope you said "emotionalized" I am showed you the theory behind it that counters you position which started in 1913 in California.
    I think perchance you don’t understand. I am saying the current level of over punishment is caused through emotionalized pleas. I am not saying that fundamentally Drinking and Driving shouldn’t be a crime, or that fundamentally there isn’t a problem with it. It should be illegal. But the punishments need to be appropriate. We currently have emotionalized drinking and driving to such a level as to excuse any level of punishment.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #44
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    In my younger days I used to go to the bars drink beer and shoot pool until I couldn't see straight, then I would drive home. A couple of mornings I actually went out to see if my pickup was there because I had no memory of driving home. I just thank God I never hurt anybody and now I never ever drive drunk. I think society at large has finally learned drunk driving is serious business and not the funny story we used to think it was.

  5. #45
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Depends....
    manslaughter comes the closest.....
    We must do the thing that has the more positive long term results...that benefits society in general.
    I for one have driven drunk, even recently (10 years ago)...Drinking establishments can do a few things to alleviate this situation...For instance, have ones vehicle in a gated secured area, with a "guard".....be able to walk that line or walk home !

  6. #46
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    In my younger days I used to go to the bars drink beer and shoot pool until I couldn't see straight, then I would drive home. A couple of mornings I actually went out to see if my pickup was there because I had no memory of driving home. I just thank God I never hurt anybody and now I never ever drive drunk. I think society at large has finally learned drunk driving is serious business and not the funny story we used to think it was.
    There are many, many rings of truth in this post...
    And there but for the Grace of God, go I...

  7. #47
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Second degree murder is either intentional killing without premeditation, or an unintended killing caused by a dangerous action that demonstrates an obvious lack of concern for human life. That second type is also known as a "depraved heart murder". Drunk driving fits this description exactly. Car crashes are the single most dangerous thing we face in our everyday lives. No one can exist in this society and not know that. And to willingly expose others to the heightened danger that drunken driving causes is exactly the kind of callous action that fits a depraved heart murder. If you drink, drive, and kill someone, you should be convicted of second degree murder.

    And, since simply taking away someone's license doesn't usually stop them from driving, a DUI should be a felony, with at least a year in jail for it. Maybe that will teach people that it's not okay to risk the lives of others just because they're too cheap to call a cab, or to arrange for a DD, or just not get so drunk if they can't manage to get home safely.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  8. #48
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    In my younger days I used to go to the bars drink beer and shoot pool until I couldn't see straight, then I would drive home. A couple of mornings I actually went out to see if my pickup was there because I had no memory of driving home. I just thank God I never hurt anybody and now I never ever drive drunk. I think society at large has finally learned drunk driving is serious business and not the funny story we used to think it was.
    I don’t think so. In fact, while there is a lot of push on drunk driving you know there’s not a whole lot of actual movement in areas which could prevent it. There’s a large double standard on some level, and I’d venture a guess it’s because DUI is big business for the State. Fact of the matter is in the way we district businesses and such now, there are not many places left with a corner bar on every corner. Things are distances away, you have to travel to get out there. But public transport is not very good in A LOT of places. So you drive, and one can say that “well you shouldn’t drink and drive so you shouldn’t drink at all”, but it’s going to happen and everyone knows it. It’s like telling kids abstinence is the best method of birth control. Technically true, functionally unrealizable.

    If we were really worried about DUI, we would be putting effort into better public transport across the nation. Better access to alternative ways home, hotels, etc. We’re not looking into that. Fort Collins, CO for example has very few taxi services. And at night when the bars close it becomes neigh impossible to get a taxi. The reason is that the city restricts heavily the companies allowed to operate taxi companies in the city. If there was a goal to decrease DUI, you don’t do that. Furthermore, cops will sit outside of bars and look for drunks getting into cars. Wait till they’re getting into their cars and then go arrest them for DUI. If the idea was prevention, you have cops intervening BEFORE they get into the car. But the idea isn’t to stop DUI from happening, it’s to wait till it does happen and then pounce. Because we’ve emotionalized this issue to such a degree to allow for unreasonable punishment, including excessive fines, there’s a lot of money. They WANT the DUI to happen because that’s money in the city coffers.

    DUI is one of those crimes that you can rile people up easily and get them to throw away reason. There is no real effort to minimize DUI instances. The effort instead is maximizing DUI punishment. There’s a difference.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #49
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Second degree murder is either intentional killing without premeditation, or an unintended killing caused by a dangerous action that demonstrates an obvious lack of concern for human life. That second type is also known as a "depraved heart murder". Drunk driving fits this description exactly. Car crashes are the single most dangerous thing we face in our everyday lives. No one can exist in this society and not know that. And to willingly expose others to the heightened danger that drunken driving causes is exactly the kind of callous action that fits a depraved heart murder. If you drink, drive, and kill someone, you should be convicted of second degree murder.

    And, since simply taking away someone's license doesn't usually stop them from driving, a DUI should be a felony, with at least a year in jail for it. Maybe that will teach people that it's not okay to risk the lives of others just because they're too cheap to call a cab, or to arrange for a DD, or just not get so drunk if they can't manage to get home safely.
    This is just assinine punishment. Felony? Year in jail?

    Most DUI does not end in property or personal damage. Any crime which does not should not be a felony. This is just ridiculous.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #50
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    I agree with Sawyer and earworm on this one. Locking the guy up for a long time only assures he won't drive during that period. Nowadays, people are required to attend AA, put locking devices in their cars, etc; just for DUII's alone.

    When the young alcoholic stops by for a beer on his way home, hours (an beers) later he has no idea what he's doing. To an alcoholic "one beer" usually refers to several. There's no easy solution, some people have to learn the hard way, others don't learn, even as their liver starts to fail.

    When I was a teen, one of my early memories was cruising town with my Mom, finding Dad at a beer joint, then I was assigned to drive him home. I was 16 and hadn't had my license very long. I remember Dad fumbling for cigs and droppiing them on the floor of the passenger seat. He wizened up in later, thank God. So, my tolerance of drinking is not real high, LOL.
    "The measure off intelligence is the ability to change." Albert Einstein

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