View Poll Results: How should drunks be charged?

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  • First degree murder

    5 10.20%
  • Second degree murder

    8 16.33%
  • manslaughter

    28 57.14%
  • Other

    8 16.33%
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Thread: Drunk Drivers

  1. #21
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Laws should be adjusted to reflect the high rate of recidivism, as well as the utter lack of regard these people have for the lives of others. Being drunk is not an excuse for killing someone.
    And what if it is not recitivism? What if someone had never been arrested before and lived a good, law abiding life otherwise. Drunk driving seems to be the catch all offense that many try to display their moral superiority about. "We don't just punish them, we bury them". Making a general statement that all people who are involved in drunk driving are scum is ridiculous and irresponsible. Considering all of the horrible premeditated crimes that happen this is amazingly harsh and unfair. Life is not foolproof. Most everyone makes wrong decisions and judgements. I am all for being harsh for repeat offenders who have demonstrated that they disregard the danger to other people on the road. That is more like premeditation. But your poll cannot be answered as written.
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

  2. #22
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    Is this for causing death, or just for weaving?
    Death Mickey, sentenced in Australia. Penalties probably differ where you are.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    Drunk driving punishments far exceed the crime currently. And part of the reason is exactly what is in your post here. It is emotionalized drivel and we're to make law and punishment off of this? No, we're finding ourselves in worse and worse situations because we are allowing emotions to dominate policy making.

    If anything we need to reverse directions on DUI laws and punishments such that we create a fair system of appropriate punishments.
    Really?

    If anything, I think drunk driving laws need much more harsh punishments. Far too many times I've seen people get picked up for a DUI and get off with a fine and a night in the drunk tank.

    Now, murder is too much because drunk driving lacks mens rea. I don't think anyone knocks back a six-pack and gets in the car with the intention of killing someone. However, as Arcana mentioned, involuntary manslaughter sounds about right.

    I'd like to know what you view as "appropriate punishment" for intentionally incapacitating yourself and gaining control of a 2,000 pound weapon capable of endangering countless lives. You may as well have an uzi on a crowded subway.

  4. #24
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Laws should be adjusted to reflect the high rate of recidivism, as well as the utter lack of regard these people have for the lives of others.
    If you're making that as a general legal argument that's just fine. If you're making it about drink driving alone, it isn't.

    There are plenty of crimes of negligence or arrogance which carry the similar levels of risks to other people and similar rates of recidivism. Some of them aren't even illegal. There is no rational reason to focus exclusively on a single offence unless you can establish that offence is being treated uniquely by existing laws.

  5. #25
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    I often agree with you Ikari but i can't here.

    The punishment did not exceed the crime here.

    Idiot - blew 0.173 and was unlicenced/suspended for 2 prior drink driving convicitions and driving an unregistered and uninsured vehicle and crossed onto the wrong side of the road killing one person and maiming another for life.

    His Penalty - jailed for three years/seven months and a non-parole period of two years/eight months.
    The victims penalty - dead.
    The passengers penalty - Health complications for life.
    The family of the victims penalty - The rest of their life without their son/brother.
    But these are accidents, and these particular cases are not the norm. In that, punishments are generally very severe and held. Now I don’t know about his prior DUIs. I in general do not support jail time for DUI alone. 3 years in prison is a long time; but this isn’t murder either. There was no intent to kill, it was an accident.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  6. #26
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Really?

    If anything, I think drunk driving laws need much more harsh punishments. Far too many times I've seen people get picked up for a DUI and get off with a fine and a night in the drunk tank.

    Now, murder is too much because drunk driving lacks mens rea. I don't think anyone knocks back a six-pack and gets in the car with the intention of killing someone. However, as Arcana mentioned, involuntary manslaughter sounds about right.

    I'd like to know what you view as "appropriate punishment" for intentionally incapacitating yourself and gaining control of a 2,000 pound weapon capable of endangering countless lives. You may as well have an uzi on a crowded subway.
    Yeah, the "fine" usually is about 7-10K along with classes, therapy, etc.

    Your other question could be answered if you took the time to read my posts.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #27
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Drunk driving punishments far exceed the crime currently. And part of the reason is exactly what is in your post here. It is emotionalized drivel and we're to make law and punishment off of this? No, we're finding ourselves in worse and worse situations because we are allowing emotions to dominate policy making.

    If anything we need to reverse directions on DUI laws and punishments such that we create a fair system of appropriate punishments.

    Emotionalized drivel, hardly, it is a matter of public safety. Here is a history of California's drunk driving laws:

    California's Drunk Driving Statutory Historical Scheme.

    California's first drunk driving statute, enacted in 1913, prohibited any "intoxicated person" from driving a motor vehicle on a public highway. (Stats.1913, ch. 326, § 17, p. 646; see Burg v. Municipal Court (1983) 35 Cal.3d 257, 262. The prohibition was later redefined as driving "under the influence" of alcohol. "To be ‘under the influence' within the meaning of the Vehicle Code, the liquor or liquor and drug(s) must have so far affected the nervous system, the brain, or muscles as to impair to an appreciable degree the ability to operate a vehicle in a manner like that of an ordinarily prudent and cautious person in full possession of his faculties. In 1969 the Legislature enacted a statutory presumption that a driver was under the influence if the driver's blood contained 0.10 percent or more, by weight, of alcohol. The ultimate question was defined in terms of the defendant's subjective behavior and condition. These difficulties led the Legislature to create a new crime.
    California DUI Legal History

  8. #28
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    Emotionalized drivel, hardly, it is a matter of public safety. Here is a history of California's drunk driving laws:



    California DUI Legal History
    It's fairly well emotionalized in order to continually increase punishment past reasonable boundaries.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #29
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's fairly well emotionalized in order to continually increase punishment past reasonable boundaries.
    Based on your opinion or do have some factual basis to espouse this position?

  10. #30
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    The level of hypocrisy on this thread is astounding.

    The overgeneralization of "drunk driver" is very misleading. I don't gamble often, but I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of the people that are wailing so hard against drunk drivers have in, fact, done it themselves. I'm not talking about's not swinging, commode hugging, knee crawling drunk... I am talking about two glasses of wine at dinner and have a slight buzz but actually over the legal limit in most states.

    Lumping all drivers who have been arrested for driving under the influence under one giant umbrella is the same to me as lumping all sex offenders under the child molester, rapist umbrella.

    A politician that wants to appear to be "tough on crime" can always fall back onto the generalization of tougher penalties for drunk drivers or sex offenders. No one will oppose him, because then it will appear that they are encouraging abhorrent behavior.
    As a dreamer of dreams and a travellin' man, I have chalked up many a mile.
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