View Poll Results: How should drunks be charged?

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  • First degree murder

    5 10.20%
  • Second degree murder

    8 16.33%
  • manslaughter

    28 57.14%
  • Other

    8 16.33%
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Thread: Drunk Drivers

  1. #121
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    i don't know how i feel yet when it comes to text messaging. I'm leaning towards charging them the same way because the message is out there. People are aware of its danger. I answered your question about weed.
    Companies across the country are firmly ordering all their employee drivers not only not to text but to not use Cellphones at all while driving.

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...ers/54299824/1

    Auto insurance is going to soar before too long if cellphone usage isnt totally banned throughout the country....cellphones are no longer a luxury...they are no longer just a business tool for traveling salesman...damn near everyone has them...and they are killing people and costing us all....

    A young mother two days ago, sitting in a parking slot of a supermarket...with her two kids in the back seat on the cell phone...I watched her laughing and waving her hands as she backed <without looking> into my front fender...totally oblivious of my horn BLASTING....I got out of my vehicle and stood at the door thinking I may frighten or upset her by approaching her vehicle...she gets out of her car and says to me...dont you look where your going.....I just laughed at her and called 911...

  2. #122
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    So you honestly don't think that a guy who intentionally mows someone down with his car because he wants to kill them, is any more morally culpable than a drunk driver? Really?
    That's not what i specifically said, but i will agree that someone who repeatedly drives drunk is culpable on that level. You people are excusing drunk drivers who kill because you are claiming that they are not at fault. I am arguing that they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Even if I were to grant you that drunk drivers know that their actions MIGHT kill someone (which isn't always the case),
    They do realize that. They don't care, just like you don't care.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    that is still a far cry from actually INTENDING to kill someone. Most drunk drivers (if they're even aware that they are too drunk to be driving) believe that they will make it home safely without getting into an accident...and they're usually right. That isn't premeditated murder; that's just stupid.
    Repeat offenders who willingly disregard the lives of others are operating on that level. They know exactly what they are doing.




    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    This mindset is exactly the problem. You are arguing about how much it "inconveniences" them rather than actually addressing the fact that it doesn't meet the criminal definition of anything else. In other words, you're arguing out of raw emotion: you don't like drunk drivers, so you want to throw the book at them regardless of the costs/benefits of actually doing so.
    No. I am arguing on the basis that repeat offenders are fully aware of the consequences of their actions, and yet drive drunk anyhow. You and other drunk driver supporters are making excuses for their actions. "they were drunk. they didn't know what they were doing." Blah- Horse manure. Utterly vile, excuse-making nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    PERFECT example of how your emotions are clouding any rational judgement from creeping in. So much so, you are utterly incapable of comprehending what you're reading (regarding this issue).
    Such as? I have logically demonstrated how these people are responsible for their actions. I don't deny that the INTERPRETATION of the law is opposed to my view.

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    In no way, shape, or form, was I making excuses. If you had actually slowed down to read and comprehend what was being said, in context, you would have known that I was merely making an observation, and there was absolutely no hint whatsoever of approval of said actions in that observation.
    You are making excuses for them. You claim that they are killing on accident and therefore are not responsible.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  3. #123
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Such as? I have logically demonstrated how these people are responsible for their actions. I don't deny that the INTERPRETATION of the law is opposed to my view.

    You are making excuses for them. You claim that they are killing on accident and therefore are not responsible.
    You are completely, totally, 100%, wrong in your interpretation of what I said AND what I meant. But it's clear that you only read/hear what you want to read/hear, so carry on.

    "Logically" =

  4. #124
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    You are completely, totally, 100%, wrong in your interpretation of what I said AND what I meant. But it's clear that you only read/hear what you want to read/hear, so carry on.

    "Logically" =
    All you have done in your last two posts is exclaim that you are misunderstood. But you aren't.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  5. #125
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    That's not what i specifically said, but i will agree that someone who repeatedly drives drunk is culpable on that level. You people are excusing drunk drivers who kill because you are claiming that they are not at fault. I am arguing that they are.



    They do realize that. They don't care, just like you don't care.



    Repeat offenders who willingly disregard the lives of others are operating on that level. They know exactly what they are doing.






    No. I am arguing on the basis that repeat offenders are fully aware of the consequences of their actions, and yet drive drunk anyhow. You and other drunk driver supporters are making excuses for their actions. "they were drunk. they didn't know what they were doing." Blah- Horse manure. Utterly vile, excuse-making nonsense.



    Such as? I have logically demonstrated how these people are responsible for their actions. I don't deny that the INTERPRETATION of the law is opposed to my view.



    You are making excuses for them. You claim that they are killing on accident and therefore are not responsible.
    Well obviously you aren't interested in discussing the issue in any sort of rational, intelligent way. Sounds like you're looking for an echo chamber to tell you how wonderful your "logical" opinions are. So I'll bow out now.
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  6. #126
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Well obviously you aren't interested in discussing the issue in any sort of rational, intelligent way. Sounds like you're looking for an echo chamber to tell you how wonderful your "logical" opinions are. So I'll bow out now.
    I understand your need to "bow out" as you put it. Your lack of thoughtful responses and knee-jerk reactions to defend drunk drivers is, after all, indefensible. Good night.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  7. #127
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    That's not what i specifically said, but i will agree that someone who repeatedly drives drunk is culpable on that level. You people are excusing drunk drivers who kill because you are claiming that they are not at fault. I am arguing that they are.
    Who has said they're not at fault?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  8. #128
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Bull scat. It’s not an accident at all. If someone drinks, they are still responsible for the result. Everyone with even the slightest amount of intelligence knows that driving under the influence of alcohol risk lives and can and often does cause death and destruction. They have the foreknowledge of those facts. That alone makes them responsible. If they continue to drink and drive, their culpability increases.
    Drinking and driving that results in death is rarely the result of intent. I'm not saying they should "get away with it", drunk driving needs to be illegal. They have the face the consequences of their actions. For Christ's sake, it seems like if they aren't charged with first degree murder, then some of y'all think they are not being punished in the least. Proper punishment is necessary yes, but properly constrained as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    I haven’t noticed reason and logic from the pro-drunk- driving crowd. All I see are excuses.
    Perchance you are compromised on this issue in such as way as you will not allow yourself to see the reason and logic and can only resort to lame propaganda.

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Fuctional effects? Like- -Killing someone?.. Just as long as they’ve poured some alcohol down their throats, it’s no biggie. The families devastated—nevermind that—god forbid we express concern for actual justice. That is emotional. Preventing repeat offenses with manslaughter charges is unlikely. You’re making excuses for them. Just like you make excuses for child molesters and other scum. Sad, really. For every low life, dirt bag, people like you make up excuses.
    You got data on that or are you just making it up and throwing a tantrum. This is why I say that DUI has been far too emotionalized. Your post is a perfect highlight of it. You can't even rationally argue anymore, all you can do is make appeal to emotion and cry. That's how horrible this debate has become. All of a sudden saying that perhaps we're excessively punishing and now it's "pro-drunk driving" this and "you make excuses for child molesters and other scum" that. Seriously, did you read your own hysterics here? This is precisely what I'm talking about.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #129
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Who has said they're not at fault?
    No one has.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You got data on that or are you just making it up and throwing a tantrum. This is why I say that DUI has been far too emotionalized. Your post is a perfect highlight of it. You can't even rationally argue anymore, all you can do is make appeal to emotion and cry. That's how horrible this debate has become. All of a sudden saying that perhaps we're excessively punishing and now it's "pro-drunk driving" this and "you make excuses for child molesters and other scum" that. Seriously, did you read your own hysterics here? This is precisely what I'm talking about.
    Bingo. "Hysterics" is exactly the word I was thinking as well.

  10. #130
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Perchance you are compromised on this issue in such as way as you will not allow yourself to see the reason and logic and can only resort to lame propaganda. You got data on that or are you just making it up and throwing a tantrum. This is why I say that DUI has been far too emotionalized. Your post is a perfect highlight of it. You can't even rationally argue anymore, all you can do is make appeal to emotion and cry. That's how horrible this debate has become. All of a sudden saying that perhaps we're excessively punishing and now it's "pro-drunk driving" this and "you make excuses for child molesters and other scum" that. Seriously, did you read your own hysterics here? This is precisely what I'm talking about.
    Do I have data on what? My argument is that the crime, especially repeated drunk driving resulting in deaths, is premeditated because the person responsible is aware of the consequences of his or her actions BEFORE getting drunk. Therefore, the lame excuse you people are using that drunks don't intend to kill is nonsense. AND YES, you are saying that drunk drivers are not responsible for their actions. You did, afterall, call it an accident. You do know what an accident is, right?

    My references to your lack of concern with regard to punishing child molesters is not "hysterics." But nice dodge.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

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