View Poll Results: How should drunks be charged?

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  • First degree murder

    5 10.20%
  • Second degree murder

    8 16.33%
  • manslaughter

    28 57.14%
  • Other

    8 16.33%
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Thread: Drunk Drivers

  1. #101
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I genuinely like the "scarlet letter" approach to DUIs, much more than I like the visceral off-with-their-heads approach.

    In my home state of Ohio, they have special yellow license plates for people who have been convicted of DUIs. Ostensibly, this is to make it easier for cops to identify people who are potentially dangerous on the roads...but in practice, there's also a bit of public shaming involved. I actually like this practice, and think that humiliation is probably a fairly effective punishment for DUIs. Maybe not for the hardcore alcoholics, but at least for the irresponsible college fratboys.
    Yeah, I like how you use stereotypes to excuse further government involvement in singling out people who may have committed a crime (or plead down to one because the cops said they'd ruin their lives if not). Maybe everyone who got in a fight should have to wear a special identifier too, cause they can be trouble. Anyone who committed disorderly conduct, you know in case your kids are around you'll want to know who is most prone to breaking out into a long string of curse words. Yes? Why not?

    Or maybe instead of using the judicial system to exact our retribution and allow us to single out individuals and forever punish them, we use it for it's actual purpose of blind, impartial justice. Either or.
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  2. #102
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    0.05 BAC. In most states that kicks off the bottom rung DUI charges. Lots of people like to think that they've never drank and drive, but many of those people have driven drunk.
    Exactly. As far as I know, I've never driven while intoxicated, but I can't say that with any certainty. I don't think anyone who has consumed more than a beer and then gotten in a car knows for sure. I certainly don't consider myself morally superior to people who have made a mistake and done something irresponsible behind the wheel...I think all of us have been less-than-ideal drivers at some point in our lives, whether it's because of alcohol or because of something else.
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  3. #103
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Around a year ago some guy slammed into the back of a motorcycle while he was drunk, killed the lady passenger and the man is a quadriplegic. Turns out this guy had like 3 DUI arrest but somehow still had a license. For the life of me I can't imagine why this guy had a license to drive, he should have been in jail, he is now but it's kinda to late.

  4. #104
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yeah, I like how you use stereotypes to excuse further government involvement in singling out people who may have committed a crime (or plead down to one because the cops said they'd ruin their lives if not).
    What's wrong with "singling out" people convicted of crimes? That's the whole basis for criminal justice, broadly speaking.

    Maybe everyone who got in a fight should have to wear a special identifier too, cause they can be trouble. Anyone who committed disorderly conduct, you know in case your kids are around you'll want to know who is most prone to breaking out into a long string of curse words. Yes? Why not?
    If there are effective ways of publicly humiliating people for other crimes, which could serve as a substitute for prison / massive fines / otherwise ruining their lives, and which would still deter the behavior, then I'm all for looking into it. I think that this can be a far more effective punishment than people often give it credit for.

    Or maybe instead of using the judicial system to exact our retribution and allow us to single out individuals
    Well, they HAVE been caught for drunk driving if the judicial system is "exacting retribution and singling them out." So it's just a question of how they should be punished (unless of course we're talking about getting rid of DUI laws entirely, which I'm against).

    and forever punish them,
    I think a prison sentence, a massive fine, and a felony on their record contributes a lot more to "forever punishing them" than having to affix a yellow license plate to their car for a couple years to embarrass them does.

    we use it for it's actual purpose of blind, impartial justice. Either or.
    How is the "scarlet letter" approach not blind, impartial justice? It doesn't target anyone without due process, it imposes less hardship on the guilty party, and the punishment fits the crime.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-14-12 at 10:53 AM.
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  5. #105
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Around a year ago some guy slammed into the back of a motorcycle while he was drunk, killed the lady passenger and the man is a quadriplegic. Turns out this guy had like 3 DUI arrest but somehow still had a license. For the life of me I can't imagine why this guy had a license to drive, he should have been in jail, he is now but it's kinda to late.
    Right, the justice system is to flawed. The plea-bargain system is a broken system that is used way to often to try and clear out the court systems. A fair trial doesn't mean you get a light sentence, a fair trial means you get the correct sentence.
    I'm coming to see that no matter what law we regulate, be it the stand your ground act, there is never an objective morally right answer to any morale question; in fact, since there are multiple objectively right answers to every moral question that leaves us with a lot of grey area and a lot of black area (not in the racial since).
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  6. #106
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Around a year ago some guy slammed into the back of a motorcycle while he was drunk, killed the lady passenger and the man is a quadriplegic. Turns out this guy had like 3 DUI arrest but somehow still had a license. For the life of me I can't imagine why this guy had a license to drive, he should have been in jail, he is now but it's kinda to late.
    He had a license because of the attitude that some people display in this thread. Go light on them. Rehabilitation.

    Even though it is easy to find story after story of repeat offenders killing innocent people.
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  7. #107
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    He had a license because of the attitude that some people display in this thread. Go light on them. Rehabilitation.

    Even though it is easy to find story after story of repeat offenders killing innocent people.
    Well, I guess I should clarify. People should be rehabilitated who truly want to be rehabilitated and not just because it is a lighter sentence. No one can force you to want to make lifestyle changes, and this certainly includes the government. The problem is that lawyers just lie and tell the judge that their defendant truly wants to change...
    I'm coming to see that no matter what law we regulate, be it the stand your ground act, there is never an objective morally right answer to any morale question; in fact, since there are multiple objectively right answers to every moral question that leaves us with a lot of grey area and a lot of black area (not in the racial since).
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  8. #108
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Drunk driving is dangerous and idiotic. If you want to talk about creating stiffer penalties for offenses, fine, but to redefine the language, that's something different.

    People who drive drunk do not do so in order to get into an accident that will result in someone's death, which would constitute first degree murder.

    Poor decisions that result in death are deemed manslaughter. If getting drunk and driving was 100% guaranteed to result in death, then, yes, drunk driving would be a first degree murder offense.

  9. #109
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I genuinely like the "scarlet letter" approach to DUIs, much more than I like the visceral off-with-their-heads approach.

    In my home state of Ohio, they have special yellow license plates for people who have been convicted of DUIs. Ostensibly, this is to make it easier for cops to identify people who are potentially dangerous on the roads...but in practice, there's also a bit of public shaming involved. I actually like this practice, and think that humiliation is probably a fairly effective punishment for DUIs. Maybe not for the hardcore alcoholics, but at least for the irresponsible college fratboys.
    One person's scarlet letter is another person's badge of honor.

  10. #110
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    Re: Drunk Drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    I cannot imagine that a "guilty mind" or intent could ever be established as intoxication is a bar against such a determination. However, reckless or disregard for human life could be attached.
    It is vehicular homicide. Not manslaughter. If I wield a loaded gun, and accidently blow your head off because I believed it was unloaded, that could be manslaughter. But if I play Russian Roulete and blow your head off, I have not only willfully risked your life, but I have done so with the foreknowledge of that risk. If I cause your death, I have done so with intent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Drunk driving punishments far exceed the crime currently. And part of the reason is exactly what is in your post here. It is emotionalized drivel and we're to make law and punishment off of this? No, we're finding ourselves in worse and worse situations because we are allowing emotions to dominate policy making.

    If anything we need to reverse directions on DUI laws and punishments such that we create a fair system of appropriate punishments.
    Ironically, many of your posts in this thread are emotional. And reverse DUI laws and punishments? Lol don’t be silly.

    But then, no surprise there- you take a very lax view of child molestation and rape as well. No need to get emotional about things that destroy lives, I guess.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Oh yeah, sorry. I mean we sure would be better off if we just totally destroyed them instead. I mean, they're drunk drivers, it's not like they're human!
    Another emotive response. Interesting coming from someone who claims that emotion has no place in this discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    And what if it is not recitivism? What if someone had never been arrested before and lived a good, law abiding life otherwise. Drunk driving seems to be the catch all offense that many try to display their moral superiority about. "We don't just punish them, we bury them". Making a general statement that all people who are involved in drunk driving are scum is ridiculous and irresponsible. Considering all of the horrible premeditated crimes that happen this is amazingly harsh and unfair. Life is not foolproof. Most everyone makes wrong decisions and judgements. I am all for being harsh for repeat offenders who have demonstrated that they disregard the danger to other people on the road. That is more like premeditation. But your poll cannot be answered as written.
    In the OP, I obviously wasn’t specific enough since certain people couldn’t even follow it. I thought the title, op, and poll made it clear. I was tired.

    For repeat offenses: first degree murder (If you seriously injure or kill someone and then do it again, this shows malice of forethought).
    First time offense: second degree murder or vehicular homicide.

    And no, just because someone misjudges, it doesn’t excuse their actions. Most everyone understands that driving drunk can kill someone. It is up to them to provide for their safe return home from the bar, party. . . where ever. It amazes me that people actually buy an argument where someone shouldn’t have to call a cab beforehand because “they don’t want to leave their car in the parking lot overnight.” Seriously? An inconvenience is worth risking someone’s life.??
    And let’s say someone goes out and kills someone while driving drunk for the first time. Should they be able to simply move on with their lives after destroying someone else’s? No. Absolutely not. I wouldn’t allow that if it were me in such a horrible situation.

    To those in this thread who support lighter consequences for drunk drivers: Human lives, especially the arbitrary lives of families unrelated to you, clearly have very little value in your opinions. If you were to kill someone while driving drunk, I’m sure you’d feel entitled to move on with your life afterwards. You’re wrong.





    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefgator View Post
    The level of hypocrisy on this thread is astounding.

    The overgeneralization of "drunk driver" is very misleading. I don't gamble often, but I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of the people that are wailing so hard against drunk drivers have in, fact, done it themselves. I'm not talking about's not swinging, commode hugging, knee crawling drunk... I am talking about two glasses of wine at dinner and have a slight buzz but actually over the legal limit in most states.

    Lumping all drivers who have been arrested for driving under the influence under one giant umbrella is the same to me as lumping all sex offenders under the child molester, rapist umbrella.

    A politician that wants to appear to be "tough on crime" can always fall back onto the generalization of tougher penalties for drunk drivers or sex offenders. No one will oppose him, because then it will appear that they are encouraging abhorrent behavior.
    Uh huh.. well I’m talking about drunk drivers who KILL people.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

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