Stay at home dads.

Tigger said:

I know that there are many things a woman CAN do. My concern is more about what women and Men SHOULD be doing, what what they CAN do.



I truly hope you're wrong. If you're not, then we have devolved even futher than I had thought as a species (and that's saying something).



No thanks. Not interested. Never have been and never will be.

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Tigger im sure im older than you...and I remember years ago men and women having more distinct roles...I remember the days when my mother stayed home and my father worked...and my father saying its my job to feed and keep a roof over the house and its moms job to raise you kids.

By the time I got married if my wife didnt work we wouldve went bankrupt trying to live on a cops pay back then....point is its not yesterday anymore tigger...women are all grown up now...

lpast said:

By the time I got married if my wife didnt work we wouldve went bankrupt trying to live on a cops pay back then....point is its not yesterday anymore tigger...women are all grown up now...

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Maybe it should still be yesterday, lpast. It was a much better day and age so far as I'm concerned.

Tigger said:

Maybe it should still be yesterday, lpast. It was a much better day and age so far as I'm concerned.

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well buddy maybe smaybe but it AINT and it never will be yesterday again...you need to learn how to live TODAY and tomorrow...not last week

Tigger said:

Maybe it should still be yesterday, lpast. It was a much better day and age so far as I'm concerned.

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*snort* To what purpose? To satisfy a few men left who think like you do?

What about yesteryear? Why stop at yesterday? Centuries ago - before our society's origins saw a population explosion and before we developed our extremely stratified market based economy/society our division of labor wasn't so defined and rigid.

I'd much rather be akin to the every day hard working peasant of 1,000 years ago than an inbred incapable noblewoman who couldn't so much as care for her own children let alone herself.

lizzie said:

Exactly what I was thinking. Day care is prohibitively expensive these days, and depending on one's job skills, a family might be better off financially for one parent to stay home.

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That is what we did. My ex and I decided she would stay at home since I had a better education and could get a better paying job. If she had worked it would have been simply to cover day care costs and that would be a waste... paying others to raise your kids for you when she (and I) could just do it herself.

Tigger said:

I truly hope you're wrong. If you're not, then we have devolved even futher than I had thought as a species (and that's saying something).

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Why is that devolving? I see it as evolving. I am a single dad. Am I not supposed to grow in empathy, compassion, silliness and multi tasking and all the rest for the betterment of my daughters? Should I work, come home watch football, drink beer (all of which I do) and limit myself to "being a man"? How stupid is that? I would say that I am easily as good at raising my children as any of the mom's around and I am still man enough to turn some heads. In fact many women find it more manly that I am open and all that.

Bodhisattva said:

That is what we did. My ex and I decided she would stay at home since I had a better education and could get a better paying job. If she had worked it would have been simply to cover day care costs and that would be a waste... paying others to raise your kids for you when she (and I) could just do it herself.

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Not to mention that the children will have the wonderful advantage of a stable and secure environment, with parents who actually desire to parent. Kudos to you.

lizzie said:

Not to mention that the children will have the wonderful advantage of a stable and secure environment, with parents who actually desire to parent. Kudos to you.

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We can see the advantages too... many of their friends were being raised in day care or by nannies...

Tigger said:

I know that there are many things a woman CAN do. My concern is more about what women and Men SHOULD be doing, what what they CAN do.



I truly hope you're wrong. If you're not, then we have devolved even futher than I had thought as a species (and that's saying something).



No thanks. Not interested. Never have been and never will be.

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The key word in your post is should. I bolded underlined and made it red so it can stick out like the sore thumb it is.
What should we be? We should be who we are and not the opinion of someone else.
What should we be? We should be what we are comfortable with.
What should we be? We should be who are and not some preconceived notion filled with piles of expectation and years of weight. We should follow our dreams with all of our heart.
Did you know that women can work do housework cook dinner and still care for a child?
Did you know there are households where women do it all as there is no male?
Did you know that males can be in that situation where there is no woman and he does it all?
You need to take the blinders off and see the world for what it is. You need to look at women as people full of life and joy and energy and not just baby making machines. We are awesome and men are awesome and can excel far beyond the narrow view you set out on a tray for us. It is time to dispel the rumor that women and men are turning back the clock to 1890. For your information you can't get there from here.

katiegrrl0 said:

The key word in your post is should. I bolded underlined and made it red so it can stick out like the sore thumb it is.
What should we be? We should be who we are and not the opinion of someone else.
What should we be? We should be what we are comfortable with.
What should we be? We should be who are and not some preconceived notion filled with piles of expectation and years of weight. We should follow our dreams with all of our heart.
Did you know that women can work do housework cook dinner and still care for a child?
Did you know there are households where women do it all as there is no male?
Did you know that males can be in that situation where there is no woman and he does it all?
You need to take the blinders off and see the world for what it is. You need to look at women as people full of life and joy and energy and not just baby making machines. We are awesome and men are awesome and can excel far beyond the narrow view you set out on a tray for us. It is time to dispel the rumor that women and men are turning back the clock to 1890. For your information you can't get there from here.

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Me...


........

Bodhisattva said:

Me...


........

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Joe will not like you as you are a competent male. My heavens you will trash his illusion forever. Hugzzzz

katiegrrl0 said:

Joe will not like you as you are a competent male. My heavens you will trash his illusion forever. Hugzzzz

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Or I will be classified as a devolved male?

Bodhisattva said:

Or I will be classified as a devolved male?

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In my book, you're more like Superman.

lizzie said:

In my book, you're more like Superman.

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Ahhh... that is sweet.

It is just how it is. It is amazing what we can get used to and if I can do it anybody can.

Bodhisattva said:

That is what we did. My ex and I decided she would stay at home since I had a better education and could get a better paying job. If she had worked it would have been simply to cover day care costs and that would be a waste... paying others to raise your kids for you when she (and I) could just do it herself.

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You know - being a sahm has given me numerous learning experiences that you can't get any other way: I've had to learn how to do so much. If I just went to college and did things 'the right way' - I wouldn't have learned *any* of what I know now. True - my childhood taught me some but I developed many hangups on the stupidest things and became less and less capable as I grew older.

Mechanic repair? Bull - 10 years ago the idea of putting my hands in an engine made me squeamish.
Replacing a toilet flange? I was so afraid of touching toilet-parts that when one toilet in the house stopped working when my husband deployed I refused to touch it - my Mom, after 7 months of it not working, had to come and help me fix it.
Building anything with wood? Shoot - I use to be afraid of the skill saw and incompetent with a hammer. I didn't even like hanging pictures let alone the idea of building kitchen cabinets!

Being a Sahm has allowed me to get over all that held me bad - and likely save an incredible amount of money in the future. Just the other day there was a leak in a pipe - at some point the plastic just went crack. It took me not even $5.00 and about an hour to just snip the old damaged pipe off, cement on a new section and done. How much money would that have cost to PAY a plumber? $75.00 would probably be a modest estimate. And the time? I would have had to turn off the water and just wait for a plumber to show up - a day? 2 days? Geesh! I so seriously scoff at the idea of paying someone to do anything I can do in 1/2 the time and with only a small fuss.

Now I'm getting a well rounded college education - but not being tied to a full time job has allowed me ot learn more than what a classroom could provide in a large vareity of subjects - I'm very 'self-taught' which is somethign I didn't see until I realized I knew quite a bit about my course-material to the point of not having to study that much this semester for a few of my classes.

lpast said:

well buddy maybe smaybe but it AINT and it never will be yesterday again...you need to learn how to live TODAY and tomorrow...not last week

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That's not going to happen. I see no value in today or the "tomorrow" that you people have created. Thankfully I think I've finally found a woman who enjoys the ideals of yesterday almost as much as I do.

Aunt Spiker said:

*snort* To what purpose? To satisfy a few men left who think like you do?

What about yesteryear? Why stop at yesterday? Centuries ago - before our society's origins saw a population explosion and before we developed our extremely stratified market based economy/society our division of labor wasn't so defined and rigid.

I'd much rather be akin to the every day hard working peasant of 1,000 years ago than an inbred incapable noblewoman who couldn't so much as care for her own children let alone herself.

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How about to satisfy the basic biology and psychology that the human species was created with? Remember, I'm the guy whose ideal society is 12th Century Norman society, Auntie. I'd rather be an Iro-Norman Huscarl than anything in this century.

Bodhisattva said:

Why is that devolving? I see it as evolving. I am a single dad. Am I not supposed to grow in empathy, compassion, silliness and multi tasking and all the rest for the betterment of my daughters? Should I work, come home watch football, drink beer (all of which I do) and limit myself to "being a man"? How stupid is that? I would say that I am easily as good at raising my children as any of the mom's around and I am still man enough to turn some heads. In fact many women find it more manly that I am open and all that.

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Good for you. Not what I would have suggested, but nothing I say is going to change your mind so there's really no point in discussing it, is there?

katiegrrl0 said:

You need to take the blinders off and see the world for what it is. You need to look at women as people full of life and joy and energy and not just baby making machines. We are awesome and men are awesome and can excel far beyond the narrow view you set out on a tray for us. It is time to dispel the rumor that women and men are turning back the clock to 1890. For your information you can't get there from here.

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I see this world for exactly what it is.... a fetid, stinking, rotten plague corpse that needs to be buried and forgotten about very quickly before its foul vapors infect even more of the population. katie, I'm looking at turning the clock back WAY past 1800. Try about 650 years past 1800. Yes, I can get there from here.... all it takes is a bullet up under the chin; and that doesn't look as bad as it probably should.

Tigger - you're a laugh: you don't try to satisfy any 'manly' things that you think 'men' should do - you're blowing a trumpet that you don't know how to play. If you did you'd be at bodybuilding.com posting in the misc instead of here on a debate forum. :lamo

Tigger said:

That's not going to happen. I see no value in today or the "tomorrow" that you people have created. Thankfully I think I've finally found a woman who enjoys the ideals of yesterday almost as much as I do.




How about to satisfy the basic biology and psychology that the human species was created with? Remember, I'm the guy whose ideal society is 12th Century Norman society, Auntie. I'd rather be an Iro-Norman Huscarl than anything in this century.




Good for you. Not what I would have suggested, but nothing I say is going to change your mind so there's really no point in discussing it, is there?




I see this world for exactly what it is.... a fetid, stinking, rotten plague corpse that needs to be buried and forgotten about very quickly before its foul vapors infect even more of the population. katie, I'm looking at turning the clock back WAY past 1800. Try about 650 years past 1800. Yes, I can get there from here.... all it takes is a bullet up under the chin; and that doesn't look as bad as it probably should.

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Here is a song for you then. BTW the Normans eventually lost their society because they were unable to not be assimilated by the societies that they conquered.

Tigger said:

Good for you. Not what I would have suggested, but nothing I say is going to change your mind so there's really no point in discussing it, is there?

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I actually don't know what you mean when you say that is not what you would have suggested. It is just life. As a single parent what else am I supposed to do?

Bodhisattva said:

I actually don't know what you mean when you say that is not what you would have suggested. It is just life. As a single parent what else am I supposed to do?

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Yeah really - what do they want? Us to farm for father figures. LOL . . . heavens!

Aunt Spiker said:

Yeah really - what do they want? Us to farm for father figures. LOL . . . heavens!

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The whole thing is ridiculous... life happens. I didn't want life to end up as it did but it did and for me to not be the best parent I can be is stupid. If that means a man takes on feminine qualities such or roles then that is how it is. It is about what is best for the children. Actually, I would argue that more well rounded parents are better for the children anyway...

Bodhisattva said:

The whole thing is ridiculous... life happens. I didn't want life to end up as it did but it did and for me to not be the best parent I can be is stupid. If that means a man takes on feminine qualities such or roles then that is how it is. It is about what is best for the children. Actually, I would argue that more well rounded parents are better for the children anyway...

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Being a good father is in no way effeminate...cleaning house and cooking and washing clothes is a part of life its no ones role to do that...if you lived alone single in a house...you either do those things as a male or you live like a pig....and being a single parent is tough and theres things y ou have to do that are your responsibility...and your right thats life.....

lpast said:

Being a good father is in no way effeminate...cleaning house and cooking and washing clothes is a part of life its no ones role to do that...if you lived alone single in a house...you either do those things as a male or you live like a pig....and being a single parent is tough and theres things y ou have to do that are your responsibility...and your right thats life.....

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I agree. I was just trying to put it in a way that a person thinking in "traditional family values" from the 1800's might think. I don't clean as well as some but I cook like a mad man. Used to work in fine dining. I am the only father that volunteers for my daughters Girl Scouts but I am also a tough guy who volunteers in the local fire brigade. I am not sure what scares some from taking on roles that they think are ubscribed soley to one sex or the other.

I do not see what staying at home and raising kids etc... has to do with gender other than it is a social construct. Men are perfectly capable just as women are perfectly capable of being the bread winners. The problem lies within the people who are making judgments.

taxigirl said:

I do not see what staying at home and raising kids etc... has to do with gender other than it is a social construct. Men are perfectly capable just as women are perfectly capable of being the bread winners. The problem lies within the people who are making judgments.

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And the judgements are so limiting too... a man can stay at home from day one and the child will be loved and cared for and the woman can go immediately back to work and provide the income. Heck, she could be a soldier and kill people and be a great mother. He could be gay and be a great father. People of very limited thought set such limitations on others and that just plain sucks...