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Who will you vote for in the 2012 presidential election...

Who will you vote for in the 2012 Presidential Election?

  • Total voters
    113
Zyphlin said:
Clinton's Presidency, specifically his second half, was Left Leaning Centrist.

Reagan's Presidency was definitely solidly conservative, though would be considered moderately conservative if picked up and dropped point for point into the modern era.

Clinton HIMSELF however was and is clearly a solid to strong liberal and Reagan himself ideologically was absolutely a solid to strong Conservative.

There is a difference between what an individuals views/thoughts/ideology is and how they govern based on the issues in front of them. Clinton's personal views, for people who listen to him talk, listen to his hopes and desires prior to election, his view on things post presidency, etc was hardly a "centrist". Reagan would hardly be someone you could call moderate either in terms of his actuals views. But the situations politically both found themselves in led their Presidencies to look differently then they themselves may be.

REAGAN would not have issues passing republican purity tests today, Reagan's 1980's PRESIDENCY dropped uncontextually into the modern day would have issues.
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Yes, I was referring to what they did, not where they stood. Applying that to Romney and Obama yields interesting results.
 
Zyphlin said:
Clinton's Presidency, specifically his second half, was Left Leaning Centrist.

Reagan's Presidency was definitely solidly conservative, though would be considered moderately conservative if picked up and dropped point for point into the modern era.

Clinton HIMSELF however was and is clearly a solid to strong liberal and Reagan himself ideologically was absolutely a solid to strong Conservative.

There is a difference between what an individuals views/thoughts/ideology is and how they govern based on the issues in front of them. Clinton's personal views, for people who listen to him talk, listen to his hopes and desires prior to election, his view on things post presidency, etc was hardly a "centrist". Reagan would hardly be someone you could call moderate either in terms of his actuals views. But the situations politically both found themselves in led their Presidencies to look differently then they themselves may be.

REAGAN would not have issues passing republican purity tests today, Reagan's 1980's PRESIDENCY dropped uncontextually into the modern day would have issues.
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Here we go again.....with the Zyphlin spin.... How can you NOT judge Reagan by today's standards if you are attempting to look at how Reagan's policies square with the GOP's policies of today?

The bottom line is: Judging Reagan's Presidency by todays far-right GOP, Reagan would have been drummed out of the party. Simple as that.
 
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disneydude said:
Here we go again.....with the Zyphlin spin.... How can you NOT judge Reagan by today's standards if you are attempting to look at how Reagan's policies square with the GOP's policies of today?

The bottom line is: Judging Reagan's Presidency by todays far-right GOP, Reagan would have been drummed out of the party. Simple as that.
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Actually, considering the past two Republican candidates have been McCain and likely Romney...I think your comment is rather idiotic as even judging Reagan's Presidency honestly and ignoring context, it still wouldn't be much more questionable than McCain's history or Romney's.

Not to mention, any politician trying to run for President and take actions in 2012 in the same fashion as in 1980 SHOULD be drummed out of the party because they'd be suffering from the same delusional notion that many liberals do when arguing about Reagan....that somehow the political climate and situation is the same now as it was in 1980.
 
Well, I *support* Obama in the 2012 election. But it's hard to say at this point whether I'll actually *vote* for him, or just not vote at all. It's not like he needs my vote to win the District of Columbia anyway. ;)
 
Zyphlin said:
Actually, considering the past two Republican candidates have been McCain and likely Romney...I think your comment is rather idiotic as even judging Reagan's Presidency honestly and ignoring context, it still wouldn't be much more questionable than McCain's history or Romney's.

Not to mention, any politician trying to run for President and take actions in 2012 in the same fashion as in 1980 SHOULD be drummed out of the party because they'd be suffering from the same delusional notion that many liberals do when arguing about Reagan....that somehow the political climate and situation is the same now as it was in 1980.
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The GOP of GWB was much closer to the GOP of Reagan than today....it was with GWB that the evangelicals really started to make their move to push the party to the right. Even McCain saw this and sold his integrity out to appeal to the party which hurt him greatly with independents and moderates. He was once seen as a "Maverick" however, he clearly lost that in 2008...picking Palin was icing on the cake. Post McCain, the evangelicals have pushed harder and harder to gain control of the party and as a result the GOP of today is much further right-wing than it was even in 2008....which is why we have seen the bitter split in the party during this primary season. Romney is going to get the nominee with substantial less than 50% of the backing of the GOP base. The only reason Romney becomes the nominee is because the evangelical vote was split....

So if you wanna talk about "context" you need to take all of that into consideration as well.
 
If Romney turns out to be the best the Repubs can do, they're in for a major shock come November, which, of course, includes in Congress.

Maybe the Repubs didn't really think Obama was beatable, and thus, like the Dems in 2004, they've served up a "Kerry" to the national sacrifice to spare the futures of more preferable candidates .. so I wonder now who the Repubs' "Obama/Hillary" will be in 2016.

Regardless, I likely won't vote for either this fall, as neither reflects a commitment to do right by the vast majority of Americans to do all that can possibly be done to bring America and the great majority of its citizens back from the brink of being outsourced into wage-slaver economic oblivion.

My kingdom for a true American!
 
Other

Both of them are equally irritating demagogues, in my opinion.
 
Ontologuy said:
Regardless, I likely won't vote for either this fall, as neither reflects a commitment to do right by the vast majority of Americans to do all that can possibly be done to bring America and the great majority of its citizens back from the brink of being outsourced into wage-slaver economic oblivion.

My kingdom for a true American!
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You've got a better shot with Obama doing that...or at least trying....than Romney who has a clearly defined history of dismantling US companies and sending jobs overseas.
 
I thought about not voting but everything about Romney is a fraud. The guy just can't be trusted as far as I'm concerned and if he chooses Paul Ryan as a running mate who wants to abolish medicare I'm definately voting Obama. At this point its either no vote or Obama.
 
Justice For All said:
I thought about not voting but everything about Romney is a fraud. The guy just can't be trusted as far as I'm concerned and if he chooses Paul Ryan as a running mate who wants to abolish medicare I'm definately voting Obama. At this point its either no vote or Obama.
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That's pretty much my thinking (except for the part about considering voting for Romney). Fortunately I live in California, so not voting amounts to supporting Obama. That fact really simplified my decision to not vote.
 
Porchev said:
I don't think he will pick Newt. ...He will go for someone younger that can run for President after 8 years of Romney being President.:2razz:

There are only two horses in the race that have a chance of winning, and which one would you rather have a liberal Democrat, or a moderate Republican?
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Romney is no moderate and he never had a chance of winning.He is the 2012 version of John Kerry.
 
I can't believe people can look at the past 3+ years with the current administration and see that it has done anything that warrants more time in office.

Romney isn't much better. At most he will MIGHT slow down the slide we are on, but it's still going to go that direction, since realistically there isn't all that much difference between the two big parties.

Since I find not voting to be a show of cowardice and shirking of what I consider to be one's civic duty, I have little choice but to vote for Romney and hope he isn't as bad as I think.


edit - the poll results are interesting. It certainly verifies what I have come to believe by reading many threads here.
 
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jamesrage said:
Romney is no moderate and he never had a chance of winning.He is the 2012 version of John Kerry.
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He's clearly not a moderate....and therein lies the problem. YOU would say that he is a Liberal based on the Romney of the past. I would say that he is a far-rightwinger based on his claimed stances of today. Who is right? I don't think either of us really knows. Mr. Etch-a-Sketch might continue to push the far-right ideals that he currently claims is him....or he might shake the toy and reinvent himself in the fall or after the election if God Forbid, he were to win. The man is a major flip flopper that makes John Kerry look stable.
 
disneydude said:
You've got a better shot with Obama doing that...or at least trying....than Romney who has a clearly defined history of dismantling US companies and sending jobs overseas.
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But Obama clearly wants to give amnesty citizenship to 20 million illegals, and he stated two state-of-the-union address ago how he wants us to be really immersed in the global economy.

Both of these are deadly ecnomically to American citizens.

The truth is, that so far, none of these two candidates have revealed that any one of them is a lesser lesser of two great evils than the other.

There is simply no such thing as "a better shot" with either candidate at this point.

They're both equally lousy shots with regard to hitting the bullseye of what the overwhelming vast majority of American citizens need and want: a major national recovery program.
 
Ontologuy said:
But Obama clearly wants to give amnesty citizenship to 20 million illegals, and he stated two state-of-the-union address ago how he wants us to be really immersed in the global economy.

Both of these are deadly ecnomically to American citizens.

The truth is, that so far, none of these two candidates have revealed that any one of them is a lesser lesser of two great evils than the other.

There is simply no such thing as "a better shot" with either candidate at this point.

They're both equally lousy shots with regard to hitting the bullseye of what the overwhelming vast majority of American citizens need and want: a major national recovery program.
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I don't agree that giving amnesty to people will have the same adverse effect on our economy that buying American companies, dismantling them and sending the jobs overseas has. Romney will continue the same failed policies of the GOP when it comes to destroying American manufacturing jobs in order to pad the pockets of the corporate shareholders. I think there is a clear difference.
 
Navy Pride said:
well let me give you a couple of differences ok:

Obama Pro Choice.........Romney Pro Life

Obama Big Gov............. Romney small Gov.

Obama anti DOMA..........Romney pro DOMA

Obama pro Obama care........Romney anti Obama care

Obama tax increases........Romney anti tax increases

Obama cut defense spending ..........Romney increase defense spending or hold the line


Hope that helps
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If you actually believe that then I got a bridge to sell you it's in Brooklyn.

The Mitt Romney Deception
 
disneydude said:
I don't agree that giving amnesty to people will have the same adverse effect on our economy that buying American companies, dismantling them and sending the jobs overseas has. Romney will continue the same failed policies of the GOP when it comes to destroying American manufacturing jobs in order to pad the pockets of the corporate shareholders. I think there is a clear difference.
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Remember: it says "liberal" to the left of your posts.

Not being able to see how cementing 20 million people as "legitimate" job stealers as opposed to the understandably implied opposite of returning the stolen jobs to American citizens .. is a mistake I expect to hear from a liberal.

Again, both candidates are clearly equally bad in the eyes of the vast majority of Americans who are neither conservative or liberal, but are bunched up near the middle waiting .. patiently .. for a true American to emerge.
 
disneydude said:
He's clearly not a moderate....and therein lies the problem. YOU would say that he is a Liberal based on the Romney of the past. I would say that he is a far-rightwinger based on his claimed stances of today. Who is right? . I don't think either of us really knows. Mr. Etch-a-Sketch might continue to push the far-right ideals that he currently claims is him....or he might shake the toy and reinvent himself in the fall or after the election if God Forbid, he were to win.
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Actions do speak louder than words.I have yet to see any actions by him to suggest that he has actually switched his views.


The man is a major flip flopper that makes John Kerry look stable
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That what makes him doomed to lose. He might as well be a republican who engaged in a gay love affair and then sent the tape the media.
 
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Ontologuy said:
so I wonder now who the Repubs' "Obama/Hillary" will be in 2016.
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if i had to guess the 2016 repub nominee right now, it would be Paul Ryan. beginnings of that narrative are already in place.
 
Your Star said:
Hardly, and hardly.
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well lets examine things. are you saying Romney and McCain, the last two GOP nominees were more RIGHTWING than Reagan.

Are you also saying that Clinton was more Leftwing than Kerry and Obama?

for you to deny what I said, you would have to say yes to both of my questions
 
Helix said:
if i had to guess the 2016 repub nominee right now, it would be Paul Ryan. beginnings of that narrative are already in place.
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wrong

Here will be the leading contenders if Obumble is reelected

1) Robert Portman
2) Chris Christie
3) Mitch Daniels
4) Marco Rubio
5) Bobbi Jindahl
6) Nikki Haley
 
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