View Poll Results: Who will you vote for in the 2012 Presidential Election?

Voters
179. You may not vote on this poll
  • Obama

    107 59.78%
  • Romney

    72 40.22%
Page 19 of 76 FirstFirst ... 917181920212969 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 190 of 760

Thread: Who will you vote for in the 2012 presidential election...

  1. #181
    Sage
    disneydude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 07:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    25,144

    Re: Who will you vote for in the 2012 presidential election...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    First, what's he fought for AND what's actually gone into law? Or just what he's passed into law?

    Second, if your standard is the second then are you consistent if you use that as your means of claiming him a Centrist to also assign credit (at least in part) for those actions in their entirety to him? Or do they belong to him when it benefits him and belongs to others when it doesn't?

    Also, defining liberal as "helping the middle class" (which is not in any way an ideological explanation but rather taken an abstract opinion based statement with significantly broad application and attempting to shoe horn that into a political definition) is about as legitimate as describing Conservatism as "Promoting Freedom" as a deifnition of what consistutes Conservative. Both are extremely opinion based, broad, generic descriptors that fail as real definitions.
    So what Obama economic policy would you define as "liberal"?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  2. #182
    Sage
    disneydude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 07:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    25,144

    Re: Who will you vote for in the 2012 presidential election...

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    IMO, a truly "radical" lefty would have:

    taken a stance of universal, government-provided healthcare or nothing,

    ended the wars immediately,

    Asked for another enormous stimulus package,

    Pushed for a top tax rate somewhere along the lines of those of the Great Depression (63%+)

    Not agreed to any spending cuts not paired with increases in taxes.

    Punished the banks/wall street for causing the recession and put in place serious regulations to prevent similar practices.

    Immediately closed guantanamo and ended the Bush interrogation practices and long-term incarceration.

    Demanded contraception coverage for women, with no religious exemptions whatsoever.

    Pushed for a repeal of DOMA.

    Refused to allow additional drilling, fracking, etc.

    I am also curious to see what people would define as "radical" when it comes to what Obama has done or even pushed for.
    All of which I would have loved for Obama to do. However, I'm also realistic and understand that it is unlikely that we will ever have a true liberal in the whitehouse.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  3. #183
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,792

    Re: Who will you vote for in the 2012 presidential election...

    I'm not voting for anyone. I don't support anyone in the race and haven't for decades. I'm voting against Obama. The only thing that could make me vote against Romney is if he picked someone like Santorum as his VP. Otherwise, once again, I get to hold my nose and vote for the lesser of the two douchebags.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  4. #184
    Politically Correct

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 08:33 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    2,850
    Blog Entries
    8

    Re: Who will you vote for in the 2012 presidential election...

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    All of which I would have loved for Obama to do. However, I'm also realistic and understand that it is unlikely that we will ever have a true liberal in the whitehouse.
    Besides pushing for a repeal of DOMA, I don't think any of those are good ideas.

    From a strategical standpoint, I think Obama should have been much more "liberal" in his opening stances on each issue so that the end result would have been an actual compromise, not just a centrist position. Starting with your reservation price is never a good idea, and creates this problem where the other side is able to come off reasonable despite taking completely ridiculous positions and attacking what were once their own proposals.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

  5. #185
    Sage
    disneydude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 07:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    25,144

    Re: Who will you vote for in the 2012 presidential election...

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    Besides pushing for a repeal of DOMA, I don't think any of those are good ideas.

    From a strategical standpoint, I think Obama should have been much more "liberal" in his opening stances on each issue so that the end result would have been an actual compromise, not just a centrist position. Starting with your reservation price is never a good idea, and creates this problem where the other side is able to come off reasonable despite taking completely ridiculous positions and attacking what were once their own proposals.
    I agree. Obama took moderate positions on pretty much everything and then tried to get the GOP to be reasonable. Unfortunately, the GOP has done nothing to attempt to compromise and by taking the middle, Obama has had very little to offer up when the GOP put their feet in the sand.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  6. #186
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,990

    Re: Who will you vote for in the 2012 presidential election...

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    So what Obama economic policy would you define as "liberal"?
    I can't answer that until you answer me question one, as "policy" is often used to reference both what a politician attempts to push to get passed and what he actually has passed. I have to know which side of that common usage you're referencing first before I can answer the question.

  7. #187
    Sage
    disneydude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 07:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    25,144

    Re: Who will you vote for in the 2012 presidential election...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I can't answer that until you answer me question one, as "policy" is often used to reference both what a politician attempts to push to get passed and what he actually has passed. I have to know which side of that common usage you're referencing first before I can answer the question.
    Answer it either way....I think the answer is the same. Nothing that Obama has proposed has been "liberal" and certainly nothing that has ended up passing is "liberal". Feel free to answer the question either way you want. What economic policy has Obama proposed or has been passed during his administration is "liberal"?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  8. #188
    Sage
    Arbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    07-12-16 @ 01:32 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,395
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Who will you vote for in the 2012 presidential election...

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I agree. Obama took moderate positions on pretty much everything and then tried to get the GOP to be reasonable. Unfortunately, the GOP has done nothing to attempt to compromise and by taking the middle, Obama has had very little to offer up when the GOP put their feet in the sand.
    Anyone can play that game. Watch:

    Obama kept our troops overseas, kept detainees at guantanimo, has expanded the powers of homeland security and set up the government for more violations of our rights.

    Sounds like a right-wing idiot to me.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  9. #189
    Sage
    disneydude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 07:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    25,144

    Re: Who will you vote for in the 2012 presidential election...

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Anyone can play that game. Watch:

    Obama kept our troops overseas, kept detainees at guantanimo, has expanded the powers of homeland security and set up the government for more violations of our rights.

    Sounds like a right-wing idiot to me.
    And most liberals would agree with you on those issues. Which is why it is hilarious that people try to say that Obama is a "liberal". I have yet to have anyone here point to a policy that could be labeled "liberal". They can't....because Obama is a left-leaning moderate (at best).
    Last edited by disneydude; 04-11-12 at 02:54 PM.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  10. #190
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,990

    Re: Who will you vote for in the 2012 presidential election...

    First, I will give you a similar broadly defined definition of liberal as you gave for conservative.

    Liberal is someone who supports the use of government to enact "fairness" and "good" into the lives of individuals and the public sector and who believed that often increasing the scope and size of government beuracracy is the primary means to do this.

    1. Seeking to increase taxes to pay for expansion of government services is a liberal economic policy
    2. Seeking to have the government place limits upon the amount of pay individuals in the private sector can make is a liberal economic policy
    3. Seeking to have the government to place further restrictions upon the business sector with regards to environmental controls
    4. Seeking to provide funding and benefits to the production, use, or purchasing of "green" energy to reduce our carbon footprint
    5. Creating public works positions and projects to create government jobs for people to use as temporary employement

    This is just off the top of my head real quick. Issue one it was taxing the rich because it's more "fair" since they benefited the most from the Bush Tax Cuts and are hurting the least, and that providing oversight of health care makes sure that insurance companies treat people fairly and that everyone can get coverage and the type of coverage they want which is fair. Two was because it wasn't fair that companies were laying people off while paying CEO's tons of money. Three and Four because it wasn't fair that we account for such a smaller percent of the world population compared to the enormous amount of carbon and other pollution we emit so we need to be coerce and/or force people and companies to be more green to stop global warming. Five, its not fair or good that people are unemployed so we need to create jobs for them that will pay them with money we took through taxes because if they're working it will put more money into the economy.

    Based on the just the end result of the policies he's passed, Obama's been a Moderate Liberal. Still definitively liberal overall, though the various compromises on some issues moved some things from solidly to moderately liberal and some of his methods of action in regards to national defense have been more clearly centrist. But a pure across the board "moderate"? Perposterous. That'd be like suggesting 2004-2008 Bush was a true "moderate" or that even Reagan was moderate (not "moderate compared to modern Republicans" but flat out a "moderate"). Clinton is far more accurate as a moderate in terms of end results, and Obama doesn't approach him at this time.

Page 19 of 76 FirstFirst ... 917181920212969 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •