View Poll Results: Should assets seizure and forfeiture be legal by law enforcement be legal?

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Thread: Should assets seizure and forfeiture be legal by law enforcement be legal?

  1. #21
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    Re: Should assets seizure and forfeiture be legal by law enforcement be legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    How is a court order not due process?
    In your scenario the court order is only done after-the-fact. After the seizure has taken place. Any reasonably articulate person can fill in the blanks after a seizure has been done to legitimize it.

    I should ask: When you say seize the vehicle, do you also mean keep the vehicle?
    Last edited by radcen; 04-08-12 at 12:10 PM.

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    Re: Should assets seizure and forfeiture be legal by law enforcement be legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I don't agree with this. If an SUV is pulled over for speeding and 500 pounds of marijuana is found in it, regardless of whether or not there are criminal charges pressed, I think the state should be able to seize the truck and all its contents -- through court order requiring the state to lay out its reasoning.
    I agree that seizing the SUV for evidence is warranted. BUT, if charges are. It pressed and the investigation is ended, it changes the entire ball game.

    I feel it is a very clear violation of the Fifth to keep it once the investigation has ended.
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    Re: Should assets seizure and forfeiture be legal by law enforcement be legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    In your scenario the court order is only done after-the-fact. After the seizure has taken place. Any reasonably articulate person can fill in the blanks after a seizure has been done to legitimize it.

    I should ask: When you say seize the vehicle, do you also mean keep the vehicle?
    Yes, I would support keeping the vehicle in that kind of situation. I know it's abused. And those abuses should be stopped immediately. But if your car is carrying 500# of MJ (my example), I have no problem at all with it being seized as evidence and then kept by virtue of a court order outlining facts that are as plain as the nose on one's face.

    I'm guessing this situation rarely happens, though -- that property is seized without charges being pressed. As to having to find them guilty first, we all know that a finding of not-guilty often has little to do with innocence.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Should assets seizure and forfeiture be legal by law enforcement be legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Yes, I would support keeping the vehicle in that kind of situation. I know it's abused. And those abuses should be stopped immediately. But if your car is carrying 500# of MJ (my example), I have no problem at all with it being seized as evidence and then kept by virtue of a court order outlining facts that are as plain as the nose on one's face.

    I'm guessing this situation rarely happens, though -- that property is seized without charges being pressed. As to having to find them guilty first, we all know that a finding of not-guilty often has little to do with innocence.
    Then I stand by original interpretation as being correct... you find due process a hindrance and unnecessary.

    You say that abuses should be stopped immediately, but seriously, how do you propose to do that without the check/balance of something like due process? Due process was never intended to give the upper hand to criminals (though it is often abused by criminals as well, yes). Due process was/is intended to thwart abuses by "the system".
    Last edited by radcen; 04-08-12 at 03:23 PM.

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    Re: Should assets seizure and forfeiture be legal by law enforcement be legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I don't agree with this. If an SUV is pulled over for speeding and 500 pounds of marijuana is found in it, regardless of whether or not there are criminal charges pressed, I think the state should be able to seize the truck and all its contents -- through court order requiring the state to lay out its reasoning.
    I disagree. The load could have been bound for legal medical marijuana clinics. No assets should ever be confiscated until after a defendent has been convicted of the crime, and then only by court order.

  6. #26
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    Re: Should assets seizure and forfeiture be legal by law enforcement be legal?

    Even when the facts are blindingly obvious that there is a crime involved, due process NEEDS to be followed or else it's all a moot point.

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    Re: Should assets seizure and forfeiture be legal by law enforcement be legal?

    Prosecuting a crime shouldn't be a source of profit for anyone, not the government, not the police. We don't use restitution as a criminal penalty. So even the victims of crimes shouldn't be profiting. If they want something, they need to sue in a civil action.

    By now it goes without saying, but all of the profiteering wrapped up in the war on drugs is ridiculous.
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    Re: Should assets seizure and forfeiture be legal by law enforcement be legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I don't agree with this. If an SUV is pulled over for speeding and 500 pounds of marijuana is found in it, regardless of whether or not there are criminal charges pressed, I think the state should be able to seize the truck and all its contents -- through court order requiring the state to lay out its reasoning.
    So, you don't agree with the Fifth Amendment, then? You believe government should be able to take private property without due process of law, and without fair compensation?
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  9. #29
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    Re: Should assets seizure and forfeiture be legal by law enforcement be legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Yes, I would support keeping the vehicle in that kind of situation. I know it's abused. And those abuses should be stopped immediately. But if your car is carrying 500# of MJ (my example), I have no problem at all with it being seized as evidence and then kept by virtue of a court order outlining facts that are as plain as the nose on one's face.

    I'm guessing this situation rarely happens, though -- that property is seized without charges being pressed. As to having to find them guilty first, we all know that a finding of not-guilty often has little to do with innocence.
    The biggest problem is that people have had property auctioned off while they were still in court over charges iirc. That IS a major problem, if someone is convicted of a crime and the monies are tied to the property then it makes sense that through due process that property is forfeit. However if property is lost simply because of a charge we have a major problem as a society.
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    Re: Should assets seizure and forfeiture be legal by law enforcement be legal?

    I have no problem with asset forfeiture as long as the assets can be very thoroughly connected with a particular crime that a person is being charged with.

    No charge? No seizure.

    Seizure? Review by judge 1 business day after the seizure to ensure probable cause.
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