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Are all black men brainwashed? (Read Warning: post #540)

Are all black men brainwashed?

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Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

ThePlayDrive said:
No, I'm repeating what people have said, but you're determined to pretend that that never happened, so there's not much else to say to you.
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people are trying to describe something to you, but you are mistaking the imagery for the thing itself.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

sawyerloggingon said:
I was pondering Maggie's eye opening post as I made my artery clogging sausage and cheese omelet and alot of thoughts went through my mind. The cynical and reactive side of me says the Reps need to do something to get blacks on their side, a reparations bill should do it. The problem is that is not a real fix and I don't want to see any Republican act like Johnson. The real fix here is education. Blacks have a 70% dropout rate and this needs to be changed if we want the black vote to change. There is a thirst in the black community for education and this is obvious when you see lines around the block in DC to get kids into private schools that Dem's fought tooth and nail to do away with.

I listen to talk radio both right and left and I have noticed that black conservatives speak good English and seem educated, they talk about the jobs they have or business they own while their counterparts that call Ed and Thom speak Ebonicscs and whine about government programs being insufficient to live on. If people of any color are educated and become part of the working class and or entrepreneursrs they become more conservative. Higher education is run by the left and kids tend to be leftist but as they mature and succeed in life they tend to swing to the right. Many years ago a black man saved my life but unfortunately was killed before I had a chance to thank him. I was fortunate enough later on to be in a financial position to help his son go to college which was his dad's dream. The kid came out a lib but now is a successful business man and is very conservative so there ya go.

Republicans need to fight a battle to keep black kids in school and get them educated.It will take a generation or two for this to effect the way blacks vote but it is a real fix and not a Johnson approach not to mention it is just the right thing to do and good for the country economically speaking.
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I can't think of any more noble cause than that, Sawyer. Not one.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

ThePlayDrive said:
I don't think so. The actual reality may be a mix of choice and influence, but the way certain people talk treats reality as black and white. If you believe that people are completely responsible for their position in life, then you can't also believe that they are being enslaved and brainwashed by another group.
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Well I agree that there are no absolutes here, but this does not mean it can't be said matter of factly, lol.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

MaggieD said:
I can't think of any more noble cause than that, Sawyer. Not one.
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Yes, Maggie, because liberals don't want black kids to get an education or go to school and become successful :roll:

Sawyer's post was half emotional appeal and half bull****.

I suppose when President Obama speaks "articulately" he's suddenly a Republican?
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

I also think part of the problem with this discussion is that the conservatives tend to believe that welfare in and of itself is the main destructive force of the ghettos or what not (if I am understanding the argument correctly). This may or may not be true as I have seen no real evidence one way or another from nonbiased sources. Personally, I think drugs, cultural issues, and poverty are the main problem.

But regardless of its validity, this view tends to be inherent in the conservative view of the world and as such, I think they tend to make the mistake that most people make, that their view should be obvious to everyone (when that is almost never the case). So the question is "why can't these people this thing that is so obvious to me?" and the answer is "well something must be subverting them"

And we get declarations like welfare is enslaving people, when the real answer is that people just have different points of view and regard common sense to be different things.

This problem of perception (its obvious to me, so therefore I will make the assumption that what is obvious to me is obvious to you and therefore you disagreeing with me means that you are hiding something or are denying something) is all over this website. I see it in just about every thread.

(edit, I am not trying to make the claim that only conservatives make this mistake, everyone does)
 
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Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

StillBallin75 said:
Yes, Maggie, because liberals don't want black kids to get an education or go to school and become successful :roll:

Sawyer's post was half emotional appeal and half bull****.
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Both parties are failing our inner-city kids. Both of them. Whole generations down the freakin' tube because we can't get a handle on this problem and fix it. Most of these kids are doomed...set up for failure by an entity known as "our public school system."
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

cpwill said:
people are trying to describe something to you, but you are mistaking the imagery for the thing itself.
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I read people's words. If people don't want me to think that they mean "blacks are brainwashed and enslaved", they shouldn't say "blacks are brainwashed and enslaved". If people don't want me to think that they mean everything is a matter of choice and personal responsibility, then they shouldn't say, "everything is a matter of choice and personal responsibility" and dismiss any alternative explanation as an "excuse".

People should learn to stand by their comments instead of abandoning them at the first sign of trouble as is being done here by excusing arguments as mere "imagery" :roll:. Isn't that the essence of "personal responsibility"?
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

StillBallin75 said:
Yes, Maggie, because liberals don't want black kids to get an education or go to school and become successful :roll:

Sawyer's post was half emotional appeal and half bull****.
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That is not what anyone means or said. It is not bull****, about blacks wanting their kids in private school etc. My daughter fought hard to get my grandchild into a private school because the public schools in and around Orlando are not great. Not saying the teachers are not trying, it's the atmosphere. Just not conducive to good learning.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

MaggieD said:
Both parties are failing our inner-city kids. Both of them. Whole generations down the freakin' tube because we can't get a handle on this problem and fix it. Most of these kids are doomed...set up for failure by an entity known as "our public school system."
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Well, that we can agree on, but it's not a problem that's easily fixable.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

megaprogman said:
And we get declarations like welfare is enslaving people, when the real answer is that people just have different points of view and regard common sense to be different things.
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This pretty much sums up all the points that started and have been discussed in this thread. It seems as though certain people - on this board and off it - assume that any choice that doesn't make sense to them must be the product of enslavement and brainwashing. That's just not the case.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

MaggieD said:
I can't think of any more noble cause than that, Sawyer. Not one.
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sorry, but i see nothing "noble" about manipulating government policy with an intent to glean a racial vote
what next, republicans going to confer citizenship on illegals only to receive the hispanic vote
that's just more racist pandering
yes, it is pandering to another race other than whites, but it is still pandering
why not instead do what is best for America and not what promotes the republican or democratic parties


let's elevate the solution away from a discussion of race and instead recognize that we need to resolve socio-economic problems by helping the impoverished out of poverty no matter what their race happens to be
sure, there are more blacks and hispanics who will need help, as a proportion of those ethnic populations, but so what, we need to help everyone in our nation who is mired in poverty to escape it. does not matter what color they happen to be
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Blackdog said:
That is not what anyone means or said. It is not bull****, about blacks wanting their kids in private school etc. My daughter fought hard to get my grandchild into a private school because the public schools in and around Orlando are not great. Not saying the teachers are not trying, it's the atmosphere. Just not conducive to good learning.
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That's not what I was referring to. The bull**** part was the entire schtick about black conservatives "speaking good English" and black people "become conservative" when they are "more educated."
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

StillBallin75 said:
Well, that we can agree on, but it's not a problem that's easily fixable.
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I think Maggie is right though. A good answer could be a larger number of smaller schools and choice by parents where to send them. This could take the form of a voucher system or some other system, public, private, or a hybrid.

I don't know if I would immediately go for a voucher system because government oversight would likely not be sufficient, but its a good organizing tool as it would inherently segregate parents who care from parents who don't and that would certainly help.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

ThePlayDrive said:
I read people's words. If people don't want me to think that they mean "blacks are brainwashed and enslaved", they shouldn't say "blacks are brainwashed and enslaved". If people don't want me to think that they mean everything is a matter of choice and personal responsibility, then they shouldn't say, "everything is a matter of choice and personal responsibility" and dismiss any alternative explanation as an "excuse".

People should learn to stand by their comments instead of abandoning them at the first sign of trouble as is being done here by excusing arguments as mere "imagery" :roll:. Isn't that the essence of "personal responsibility"?
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Have you now gotten the distinct impression that I don't care what you think?? Your constant baiting isn't lost on me, TPD. I'd put you on ignore, but it's just too darned much fun watching you act out. :rofl
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

cpwill said:
not at all - that people become addicted to easy, free government handouts is precisely a portion of the conservative argument here.
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Um, the problem as always is JOBS, there are not enough JOBS that match the skill set present. If your argument is that they need to increase their skill sets, sure, but to what?...and how does one do that while being un/under/employed? Good paying low-mid level jobs (manufacturing, municipal) have been decimated through off-shoring, automation and reduced state spending. The middle class is being divided where some have been able to push upwards while most are dropping down.

Of course, most of your argument is based on the premise that "welfare" still exists at levels of the past. Did you skip the 90's?
 
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Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

StillBallin75 said:
That's not what I was referring to. The bull**** part was the entire schtick about black conservatives "speaking good English" and black people "become conservative" when they are "more educated."
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Well there is some truth to that but it is by no means any kind of rule. Many very educated intelligent blacks are progressives as well. In fact in far larger numbers. My totally hot wife is a good example. :mrgreen:

Of course she would never admit she is a liberal, but she is. Cancels out my votes ever year, lol.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

megaprogman said:
I think Maggie is right though. A good answer could be a larger number of smaller schools and choice by parents where to send them. This could take the form of a voucher system or some other system, public, private, or a hybrid.

I don't know if I would immediately go for a voucher system because government oversight would likely not be sufficient, but its a good organizing tool as it would inherently segregate parents who care from parents who don't and that would certainly help.
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I'm not against a voucher system but it's not the silver bullet many folks seem to want it to be. I do agree though that if public schools are ****ty in a particular area, people should have more choice.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

megaprogman said:
I think Maggie is right though. A good answer could be a larger number of smaller schools and choice by parents where to send them. This could take the form of a voucher system or some other system, public, private, or a hybrid.

I don't know if I would immediately go for a voucher system because government oversight would likely not be sufficient, but its a good organizing tool as it would inherently segregate parents who care from parents who don't and that would certainly help.
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The problem with the voucher system is that it, again, only benefits people who are already going to be successful because they are already making positive choices. Our education system isn't much a problem for students of parents who make good choices, it's a problem for the students of parents who don't. It's better to use our time and resources to improve ALL schools instead using it to just continue the pattern of making sure certain schools are good and others are not.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

megaprogman said:
I think Maggie is right though. A good answer could be a larger number of smaller schools and choice by parents where to send them. This could take the form of a voucher system or some other system, public, private, or a hybrid.

I don't know if I would immediately go for a voucher system because government oversight would likely not be sufficient, but its a good organizing tool as it would inherently segregate parents who care from parents who don't and that would certainly help.
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Thinking about this, this could even be achieved by sectioning off already existing schools into "pods" or something. Each pod being somewhat independent, but functionally complete with its own achievement reporting structure. Also, this sort of setup would probably reduce administrative cost (one principal and staff instead of many, bussing, maintenance, etc) and get more funds where they are actually needed.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

megaprogman said:
I think Maggie is right though. A good answer could be a larger number of smaller schools and choice by parents where to send them. This could take the form of a voucher system or some other system, public, private, or a hybrid.

I don't know if I would immediately go for a voucher system because government oversight would likely not be sufficient, but its a good organizing tool as it would inherently segregate parents who care from parents who don't and that would certainly help.
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what about the parents you do not give a rip about their kid's education
unfortunately, there are a lot of them
how are they going to choose the best school? probably based on which fly by night 'charter' school offers them the biggest kickback if they send their child to that school
now that will really help the kid get a good education and escape their present condition [/s]
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Gimmesometruth said:
Um, the problem as always is JOBS, there are not enough JOBS that match the skill set present. If your argument is that they need to increase their skill sets, sure, but to what?...and how does one do that while being un/under/employed? Good paying low-mid level jobs (manufacturing, municipal) have been decimated through off-shoring, automation and reduced state spending. The middle class is being divided where some have been able to push upwards while most are dropping down.

Of course, most of your argument is based on the premise that "welfare" still exists at levels of the past. Did you skip the 90's?
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They can't increase their skill sets until they have a good education. They aren't getting a good education. Hell, in inner cities, they're not even getting an education. Their role models are often the drug dealers in the neighborhoods. The welfare system has all but destroyed their families. They've been screwed, blued and tattoed by a system that says, "Here, let me help you."
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

justabubba said:
what about the parents you do not give a rip about their kid's education
unfortunately, there are a lot of them
how are they going to choose the best school? probably based on which fly by night 'charter' school offers them the biggest kickback if they send their child to that school
now that will really help the kid get a good education and escape their present condition [/s]
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Thats the advantage of a bunch of smaller schools. The parent can get a catalog and go "well this one is good at teaching science, that one is good at liberal arts, etc"

The parents who bother to make a choice get first dibs. Everyone else just gets assigned. The segregation between parents who care and don't will happen

Obviously, I am using an overly simplistic example because educational results are never clear cut or easily measurable. But likely, the sheer synergy of having good students in one place that feed off each other will do far more than teachers ever could. (teachers tend to have very little control over things like this)
 
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Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

MaggieD said:
Have you now gotten the distinct impression that I don't care what you think?? Your constant baiting isn't lost on me, TPD. I'd put you on ignore, but it's just too darned much fun watching you act out. :rofl
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What? The post that you just quoted wasn't even a response to you. Moreover, my comments aren't based on the premise that you care. They are based on the premise that they are true and a great deal of them in this conversation have dealt with a lot of things beyond what you've said. Just give it a rest. Not everything I write is about you. Jesus Christ. :shrug:
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

megaprogman said:
Thats the advantage of a bunch of smaller schools. The parent can get a catalog and go "well this one is good at teaching science, that one is good at liberal arts, etc"

The parents who bother to make a choice get first dibs. Everyone else just gets assigned. The segregation between parents who care and don't will happen

Obviously, I am using an overly simplistic example because educational results are never clear cut or easily measurable. But likely, the sheer synergy of having good students in one place that feed off each other will do far more than teachers ever could. (teachers tend to have very little control over things like this)
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That segregation is one the main problems of the education system now. A voucher system would just keep that pattern. Why not spend our limited money and energy improving ALL schools with systems that have proven benefits instead of simply letting certain kids choose to go to other schools?
 
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