Are all black men brainwashed? (Read Warning: post #540)

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

I've never thought of that before.
I tend to see everyone as having their own mind and being able to make there own decisions. I do think about how expectations affect how well people do in society. Ex. If you expect a student to do well they will type of thing.

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

ThePlayDrive said:

This came from this quote in another thread:



I've seen this argument repeated by many posters in many other threads for the year I've been here and I want to know if this is a common assessment of black men - that they are brainwashed and consequently, do not have or are incapable of having their own thoughts. So, do you agree? Moreover, if you answer "yes", do you believe that black men are more "brainwashed" than any other race? And if so, why do you think that black men think less for themselves than other races?

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It's just racist bs. Of course they're not 'brainwashed', and anyone who would suggest otherwise has no clue what brainwashing is.

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Redress said:

Right, but nominal affects effective.

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:shrug: indirectly. As you and I have discussed in the past, nominal rates have varied wildly without producing anything close to a comparative swing in revenues. But claiming that a nominal tax rate that is designed to be effective rate neutral is some kind of massive give away is simply inaccurate.

And when those deductions go away(which is very possible since no one is willing to say what deductions)

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well it's not that 'no one is willing to say what'. I watch whenever Ryan is on, and he's thrown out a number of options. Its' just that such would come out of Ways and Means, which he doesn't head (but which it is an open secret that he wants, and will probably get). The directions in the budget is that every percentage point that is cut has to be scored neutral by stripping out deductions and credits; and it's not exactly like the math hasn't been done before. The President's own Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction committee lowered nominal rates significantly further in one of their plans while increasing revenue by about a Trillion dollars.

will they not be paying a higher effective tax rate? Which is the essensce of the change, reduce taxes for the wealthy, pay for it by higher taxes on the poor and middle class, and reduce programs that benefit those poor and middle class.

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1. America has the most progressive income tax system in the industrialized world. It's not that we don't tax our wealthy enough, it's that we barely tax our middle income earners at all. If you want more revenue, you aren't going to get it out of the upper income earners - the money is in the middle class. You know how everyone talked about the Bush Tax Cuts For The Rich that were going to "cost" the treasury $800 Bn over 10 years? The middle class tax cuts "cost" the treasury $3.2 Trillion.

2. However, the Ryan Plan doesn't do this. Nominal rates get switched over to two: 10 and 25%. Any reduction in deductions that was weak enough that the wealthy ended up with a net tax cut for the wealthy would produce the exact same result for those middle class households who itemize that you are so worried about.

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Hatuey said:

It's really not that big of an issue and so many people seem to have a problem with it because they want to. I have white friends who I throw the word around with. It's not something we have a problem with. One day we were all listening to Notorious BIG at the house - not that that is how it started but this guy named Tom throws out "Nigga" - we all just looked at him for a second, laughed, and kept singing. They don't show up at my house and are like "HEY NIGGER!" - I mean if they did it just be rude - but if it's around people you know? It's not that big of an issue if you give it context.

I personally take issue with the word when it's inserted in political rhetoric and the use is not even remotely joking. I take issue when it's one of those wink*wink* good old boy uses.

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I think it's kind of the same way with middle eastern people using the term terrorist. My friend says he's of the "terrorist persuasion." He's just joking around.

Another time, a bunch of girls were running through the hallway screaming and laughing really loud, and then they ran out the doors. We just laughed, and he said if we wanted to scare them, we should run out of the building behind them screaming too with the brownest guy in the front. We all laughed.

I think it's ok to make statements like that towards yourself or towards a good friend, but it's not the same when somebody is an asshole and calls you something racist about the color of your skin or ethnicity.

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Meathead said:

Politically the US black population is essentially monolithic, far more so than any other demographic. I expect that's where the idea of brainwashing comes from.

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lol

Renaissance man speaks.

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

I keep asking for Republican policies that are anti black and all I get is "the southern strategy". The fact that you have to go back 40 year to a disgraced presidents campaign strategy tells me there is no Republican anti black policy you can point out so it is still a mystery to me why 92% of blacks vote Dem. I have asked here and in other threads for a black Democrat to tell me why they are Democrat and none has stepped forward yet. Maybe when they stop and think about it they really don't know. Maybe it is just so ingrained in their culture they would feel like an Uncle Tom if they voted Republican, that is what conservative blacks that call into conservative radio shows say. Until then we are just a bunch of white people that don't really know for sure just why 92% of blacks vote Dem. I truly wish one of them would step up to the plate and discuss this issue, I am hear to learn as well as spout my opinion.

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

SheWolf said:

As a woman, the most repulsive thing occurring in their move to shut down PP.

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Republicans have moved to shut down PP? I have never heard that - I thought they just moved to not have taxpayer money go to PP. Where have Republicans moved to ban PP?

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

cpwill said:

Republicans have moved to shut down PP? I have never heard that - I thought they just moved to not have taxpayer money go to PP. Where have Republicans moved to ban PP?

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We are not stupid. Most pro lifers hate PP and Margret Sanger and it's obvious, and pro lifers want PP shut down merely because they provide abortion services. It's not just about funding abortion, because the government can make sure that taxpayer funds don't go to abortion or even to PP surgical and abortion centers. Not every PP offers abortion, but conservatives don't make a difference. Conservatives turn their head when we point out that PP is helpful to women in terms of general health. I don't see Conservatives trying to make sure women have any affordable options whatsoever. The only thing pertaining to a woman's reproductive health that concerns Conservatives is abortion.

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

taxigirl said:

I've never thought of that before.
I tend to see everyone as having their own mind and being able to make there own decisions. I do think about how expectations affect how well people do in society. Ex. If you expect a student to do well they will type of thing.

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I agree. I had a teacher in high school who expected us to go above and beyond in her class. She was the prime example of a great teacher. It's funny though because some students responded positively and enjoyed her class while others thought she was "too mean". I sometimes wonder if those people look back on that class any differently now that we're all older.

But expectations is definitely something that impacts people and not just the direct expectations of family, friends, teachers and so on, but also the expectations that people see in society through the media, public figures and other societal individuals and institutions. For example, if people who look like you are more frequently depicted as gangsters and uneducated fools, then you might start to internalize that. Or if one group of society thinks that the majority of your race is brainwashed and can't think for themselves, I imagine that might impact ones worldview as well.

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

sawyerloggingon said:

I keep asking for Republican policies that are anti black and all I get is "the southern strategy". The fact that you have to go back 40 year to a disgraced presidents campaign strategy tells me there is no Republican anti black policy you can point out so it is still a mystery to me why 92% of blacks vote Dem. I have asked here and in other threads for a black Democrat to tell me why they are Democrat and none has stepped forward yet. Maybe when they stop and think about it they really don't know. Maybe it is just so ingrained in their culture they would feel like an Uncle Tom if they voted Republican, that is what conservative blacks that call into conservative radio shows say. Until then we are just a bunch of white people that don't really know for sure just why 92% of blacks vote Dem. I truly wish one of them would step up to the plate and discuss this issue, I am hear to learn as well as spout my opinion.

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It's the modern day rhetoric of the modern Conservative Party. Calling Brown v School Board "judicial activism" and saying Civil Rights Laws and desegregation is big government run a muck. Fighting against Martin Luther King Day, along with his anti segregated message, Reagan's Welfare Queen campaign, and that's to name a few. The party doesn't do anything outwardly racist. If anybody actually tried to strip away Civil Rights and desegregation laws, they would be opening a can of worms so it's just something they pay lip service too.

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

SheWolf said:

We are not stupid. Most pro lifers hate PP and Margret Sanger and it's obvious, and pro lifers want PP shut down merely because they provide abortion services. It's not just about funding abortion, because the government can make sure that taxpayer funds don't go to abortion or even to PP surgical and abortion centers. Not every PP offers abortion, but conservatives don't make a difference. Conservatives turn their head when we point out that PP is helpful to women in terms of general health. I don't see Conservatives trying to make sure women have any affordable options whatsoever. The only thing pertaining to a woman's reproductive health that concerns Conservatives is abortion.

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Respecfully, SheWolf, there are lots of people in this country who think abortion is murder. (I'm not one of them.) They are entitled to their opinions, just like ProChoicers are entitled to theirs. Abortions are legal. They're going to continue to be legal. But that doesn't mean that those people who don't believe they should be legal should be forced to fund organizations that provide them with their tax dollars.

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

SheWolf said:

We are not stupid. Most pro lifers hate PP and Margret Sanger and it's obvious, and pro lifers want PP shut down merely because they provide abortion services.

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well it is true I would like for there to be no abortions (PP I have no inherent problem with - I accept they've gotten past their eugenics roots). But you argued that Republicans were trying to shut PP down alltogether. Provide evidence or retract the claim.

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

MaggieD said:

Respecfully, SheWolf, there are lots of people in this country who think abortion is murder. (I'm not one of them.) They are entitled to their opinions, just like ProChoicers are entitled to theirs. Abortions are legal. They're going to continue to be legal. But that doesn't mean that those people who don't believe they should be legal should be forced to fund organizations that provide them with their tax dollars.

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see, it's evil middle aged white men like you who don't understand the special health and electoral needs of women.

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

MaggieD said:

Respecfully, SheWolf, there are lots of people in this country who think abortion is murder. (I'm not one of them.) They are entitled to their opinions, just like ProChoicers are entitled to theirs. Abortions are legal. They're going to continue to be legal. But that doesn't mean that those people who don't believe they should be legal should be forced to fund organizations that provide them with their tax dollars.

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They want to end abortion by shutting down PP. It's all because PP is the largest abortion provider. That's their main concern, not women's health or the health ramifications for women. Like I said, I might feel different if they were offering an alternative... if there was organization offering cheap affordable alternative providing women's health options like PP, but not abortion, but Conservatives don't do that. That's not a goal. Helping women is not their goal, ending abortion is.

They want to know women feel disenfranchised from voting Conservative, and I gave my main reasoning, personally. It's because they care more about ending abortion then they care about the health of women. And completely defunding PP isn't an excuse. Why should taxpayers support Crisis Pregnancy Centers but not PP? It's not simple economic conservativism and small government. It's an endorsement of Conservative principles with taxpayer money, which is worse than just defunding both programs.

As it's been explained, there are laws in place to make sure no federal funds go to abortion.

It's not going to cause abortion to be illegal. It is going to make it harder for some women to have access to it, as well as proper care and screenings though. I guess they think the outcome is worth it. I disagree.

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

cpwill said:

well it is true I would like for there to be no abortions (PP I have no inherent problem with - I accept they've gotten past their eugenics roots). But you argued that Republicans were trying to shut PP down alltogether. Provide evidence or retract the claim.

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Is the Republican Party as a whole trying to shut down PP altogether?
Personally I don't believe so.

Are there Republicans within the Republican party trying to?

Romney: "Planned Parenthood, We're Gonna Get Rid Of That" - YouTube
Romney commits to defund United Nations Population Fund, Planned Parenthood | Deseret News
House Votes to Strip Planned Parenthood of Federal Funding - ABC News

Hmmmm!

Who is this "We" Romney speaks of?

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

SheWolf said:

It's the modern day rhetoric of the modern Conservative Party. Calling Brown v School Board "judicial activism" and saying Civil Rights Laws and desegregation is big government run a muck. Fighting against Martin Luther King Day, along with his anti segregated message, Reagan's Welfare Queen campaign, and that's to name a few. The party doesn't do anything outwardly racist. If anybody actually tried to strip away Civil Rights and desegregation laws, they would be opening a can of worms so it's just something they pay lip service too.

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Exactly. It's crazy how so many people can be so blind to how blatantly alienating modern conservatism often is to black Americans and minorities in general. For example, as per the topic of this thread, I've seen MANY conservatives on this board accuse minorities who vote Democratic as being brainwashed. If they can't respect minorities now, why would they would respect them if they changed parties? It's just unbelievable that the very same conservatives wonder why blacks don't support the Republican Party when they will gladly tell black people that their perception of racism is either an illusion or "pulling the race card", gladly tell black Americans that they can't think for themselves, gladly accuse the black community of not caring about violence in their communities and gladly denounce things like MLK Day and Brown v. Board.

If someone was telling you at every stretch that you were brainwashed, not caring about your community, delusional, lazy and host of other things when you don't perceive yourself as any of those things, would you support them and their policies? I wouldn't.

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

cpwill said:

well it is true I would like for there to be no abortions (PP I have no inherent problem with - I accept they've gotten past their eugenics roots). But you argued that Republicans were trying to shut PP down alltogether. Provide evidence or retract the claim.

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They want to completely defund PP and that's evidence enough. Ontop of that, the pro lifer working for Susan G Komen even tried to defund PP. And her main concern is supposed to be breast cancer. That right there should tell you that pro lifers would rather attack PP funding at every angle than put the health needs of women first.

I am not going to retract any statement, until you to retract all the BS strawman crap out of your your posts. I never said conservatives were racist or evil white men. It's hard to believe you want a serious discussion of any kind.

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

SheWolf said:

They want to end abortion by shutting down PP. It's all because PP is the largest abortion provider. That's their main concern, not women's health or the health ramifications for women. Like I said, I might feel different if they were offering an alternative... if there was organization offering cheap affordable alternative providing women's health options like PP, but not abortion, but Conservatives don't do that. That's not a goal. Helping women is not their goal, ending abortion is.

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The funding that was discontinued will not cause PP to shut down. In fact, the controversy actually increased their revenue from other sources.

They want to know women feel disenfranchised from voting Conservative, and I gave my main reasoning, personally. It's because they care more about ending abortion then they care about the health of women. And completely defunding PP isn't an excuse. Why should taxpayers support Crisis Pregnancy Centers but not PP? It's not simple economic conservativism and small government. It's an endorsement of Conservative principles with taxpayer money, which is worse than just defunding both programs.

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I don't have any knowledge about Crisis Pregnancy Centers to opine on why, SheWolf. But I still think that those people who are appalled by the thought of abortion have a right to have their voices heard re their tax dollars.

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

SheWolf said:

They want to completely defund PP and that's evidence enough.

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that is not true. were that the case, we would be pushing to pass laws that state that PP does not have the right to charge for its' services or accept donations. neither of those have been suggested. All republicans have done is try to stop tax payer dollars from going to PP. That no more "shuts down PP" than having the government not subsidize McDonalds "Shuts Down Micky-D's". Let me know when you have actual supporting evidence for your assertion.

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

cpwill said:

:shrug: indirectly. As you and I have discussed in the past, nominal rates have varied wildly without producing anything close to a comparative swing in revenues. But claiming that a nominal tax rate that is designed to be effective rate neutral is some kind of massive give away is simply inaccurate.

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Aggregate tax reven ue has jack and **** to do with what individuals pay. Nominal rates in fact directly influence how much each person pays.

well it's not that 'no one is willing to say what'. I watch whenever Ryan is on, and he's thrown out a number of options. Its' just that such would come out of Ways and Means, which he doesn't head (but which it is an open secret that he wants, and will probably get). The directions in the budget is that every percentage point that is cut has to be scored neutral by stripping out deductions and credits; and it's not exactly like the math hasn't been done before. The President's own Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction committee lowered nominal rates significantly further in one of their plans while increasing revenue by about a Trillion dollars.

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Yes in fact it is that no one will say. PolitiFact | Obama says Republicans in Congress won't name one tax exemption they want to repeal

Due to the way the nominal rate change is designed, it is almost impossible that lower and middle class people, some of them, maybe lots of them, will end up paying more, while many if not most wealthy people will pay less. In point of fact, it is designed that way. FactCheck.org : Does House Budget Plan Cut Taxes or Not?

1. America has the most progressive income tax system in the industrialized world. It's not that we don't tax our wealthy enough, it's that we barely tax our middle income earners at all. If you want more revenue, you aren't going to get it out of the upper income earners - the money is in the middle class. You know how everyone talked about the Bush Tax Cuts For The Rich that were going to "cost" the treasury $800 Bn over 10 years? The middle class tax cuts "cost" the treasury $3.2 Trillion.

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Wait, so now Ryan's plan raises revenue? He says it is revenue neutral, so is he lying? If it is revenue neutral as he claims, and unless the house gets very creative with how they handle the changes to deductions and loopholes, then it is not an increase in revenue, it is holding revenue the same, while giving a tax break to the wealthy at the expense of those not so wealthy.

2. However, the Ryan Plan doesn't do this. Nominal rates get switched over to two: 10 and 25%. Any reduction in deductions that was weak enough that the wealthy ended up with a net tax cut for the wealthy would produce the exact same result for those middle class households who itemize that you are so worried about.

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Huh? That is bull****. Top rate would go from 35 to 25. That would take a significant reduction in loopholes/deductions, and unless they are very targeted(which ain't happening...for example, ways and means is not going to raise capital gains on incomes above a certain threshold), this will result in a tax cut. In fact, I know of no experts who are not saying that this will not result in at least many wealthy people(over 1 mil say) getting a tax cut, and to be revenue neutral, it must then make that money somewhere else.

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

cpwill said:

that is not true. were that the case, we would be pushing to pass laws that state that PP does not have the right to charge for its' services or accept donations. neither of those have been suggested. All republicans have done is try to stop tax payer dollars from going to PP. That no more "shuts down PP" than having the government not subsidize McDonalds "Shuts Down Micky-D's". Let me know when you have actual supporting evidence for your assertion.

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So you're telling me no Conservatives actually want to shut down PP? Do you have evidence of that?

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

MaggieD said:

Respecfully, SheWolf, there are lots of people in this country who think abortion is murder. (I'm not one of them.) They are entitled to their opinions, just like ProChoicers are entitled to theirs. Abortions are legal. They're going to continue to be legal. But that doesn't mean that those people who don't believe they should be legal should be forced to fund organizations that provide them with their tax dollars.

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People who do not understand the meaning of words are not people whose opinion we shoud care about.

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

MaggieD said:

The funding that was discontinued will not cause PP to shut down. In fact, the controversy actually increased their revenue from other sources.



I don't have any knowledge about Crisis Pregnancy Centers to opine on why, SheWolf. But I still think that those people who are appalled by the thought of abortion have a right to have their voices heard re their tax dollars.

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They blindly attacked all their funding. It's not simply about just abortion. It's about PP as an entire company. I don't know how anybody can see it differently. Why would a pro lifer at Susan G Komen want to defund breast cancer screening at PP if they didn't want to just attack abortion funding?

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

cpwill said:

see, it's evil middle aged white men like you who don't understand the special health and electoral needs of women.

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Hey look, straw man.

Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

SheWolf said:

They blindly attacked all their funding. It's not simply about just abortion. It's about PP as an entire company. I don't know how anybody can see it differently. Why would a pro lifer at Susan G Komen want to defund breast cancer screening at PP if they didn't want to just attack abortion funding?

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The ProLifer who did that doesn't represent the Republican Party, Congress or you or me. And neither does the Susan Komen Foundation.

SheWolf, I can see you're very passionate about this, and I don't think I'm going to change your mind. In this case, on this topic, I'm just going to agree that we disagree.