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Are all black men brainwashed? (Read Warning: post #540)

Are all black men brainwashed?

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Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

cpwill said:
that is correct - it merely demonstrates what you said to be irrelevant.
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No, actually it is relevant.

they claim standard deductions, which do not change under the Ryan Plan. the itemized deductions that will be going away to pay for lowering nominal rates tend to be used by the upper-middle to upper-income earners.
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Note that very important word "tend". In point of fact, using your chart, almost 20 % of people making 50 k or less(or households, chart does not say) in fact do itemize. Since the top is getting a tax cut, but tax income is supposed to remain stable, guess where that money comes from. It even balances out right since there is a ****load more people not at the top than at the top. So like I said, the poor and middle class are going to pay more in taxes to give the rich a tax cut. Blacks tend to make up a disproportionate number of poor to middle class. They are also programs they use cut. So to claim it is brainwashing that leads them to vote against those who propose those budgets silly.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

MaggieD said:
Kandahar, I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. Where did I say lower-income people vote Democratic?

Where did I say women have been brainwashed by the Democrats??
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MaggieD said:
No matter WHAT Republicans do, there will be those unthinking women and lower-income people who will not take the time to understand. They just keep on drinkin' the Kool Aid. And, oh, how the Democrats love that.
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Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Redress said:
No, actually it is relevant.
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nominal rates are pointless. effective rates - as they are what people actually pay - are what matter.

Note that very important word "tend". In point of fact, using your chart, almost 20 % of people making 50 k or less(or households, chart does not say) in fact do itemize.
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and 90%+ of the highest income folks do. So, to present the reduction in deductions as some kind of measure which shifts the burden to the poor is silly, especially given that the actual designer of the plan wants to only strip deductions from households bringing in $250K plus.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

cpwill said:
nominal rates are pointless. effective rates - as they are what people actually pay - are what matter.
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Right, go back and show where I said effective rate? Nominal rates are going down. Pointing out that they are different does nothing. Nominal rates going down means you pay less, unless that is entirely offset by closing loopholes and eliminating deductions.

and 90%+ of the highest income folks do. So, to present the reduction in deductions as some kind of measure which shifts the burden to the poor is silly, especially given that the actual designer of the plan wants to only strip deductions from households bringing in $250K plus.
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So the 20 % of those making less than 50k do not count now? How do you figure that? Are we supposed to ignore them because the final numbers for tax income balances? Is only raising taxes on 20 % of those people under 50 k ok?
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Kandahar said:
Correct. Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act provide health care primarily for low-income people, whereas Medicare is a universal program. Therefore these distinctions make sense.
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nah - repealing Obamacare isn't taking money from programs designed to help the poor. not least because Obamacare is currently helping no poor people.

Since GDP at any given point in time is the same across all of these different programs, it shouldn't matter whether it's measured in terms of percentage of GDP or actual dollars. The results should be identical in either case.
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not at all, because it does not measure the fall relative to what the rise would otherwise have been. an example:

Program A is currently 2% of GDP. It is slated to grow to 7% of GDP in 20 years, and then fall back to 5% 20 years after that.

Program B is currently 1.5% of GDP. It is slated to grow to 3% of GDP in 20 years, and 5% of GDP 20 years after that.

Cuts are enacted which reduce Program A to 4% of GDP in 20 years, and 3.5% of GDP 20 years after that. Klein would measure this as a 1.5% cut.

Program B is cut to reduce it to 3.5% of GDP in 20 years, and maintain it at that level indefinitely. Klein would measure that as a 1.5% cut.

both cuts are measured as equal, despite the fact that more actual money was cut out of Program A.

Medicare spikes much higher over the next 25 years - which is why choosing 2050 (after the boomers have largely died off) isn't an accurate measure of relative cuts.

This is incorrect, mathematically
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see above

You complained that a 10-year time frame wasn't long enough, now you're complaining that a 40-year time frame is too long.
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no, I am complaining that cherry picking dates to make sure that you don't measure the lions' share of Medicare savings is deliberately cherry picking dates in order to avoid counting the lions' share of Medicare savings. I could just as easily prove that you never existed, so long as I was allowed to only include the dates of a year before your birth and a year after your death.

What time frame *do* you want?
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I don't want a time frame. I want a total savings by program.

The Affordable Care Act will cost the government quite a bit, yes. Most of which is offset by savings on private health care
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ah yes. because the Massachussetts model (which leftists are so keen to point out was the basis for Obamacare) demonstrates that this kind of structure is likely to bring down private healthcare costs? or bring down costs at all? what an interesting notion. and even if they did (which the evidence thus far strongly demonstrates it will not), private savings will improve the governments' deficit?

Correct; the CBPP itemizes the programs that they are talking about:
$2.4 trillion from Medicaid and other low-income health care programs
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two thirds of which are merely overturning Obamacare.

$134 billion from SNAP (i.e. food stamps)
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:lol: this estimate comes from taking the savings that the federal government see's from turning it into a Block Grant and assumes that the States simply 100% drop the burden. Evil, evil state governments.

Block Granting Federal programs and leaving the States to figure out solutions that best fit their own populaces is simply smart governance. Currently the incentive structures are deeply flawed, and encourage abuse of the programs by State politicians.

$463 billion in other mandatory programs for low-income people
$291 billion in discretionary programs for low-income people
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actually if you read your own source, you will note that they have merely assumed that these are low-income cuts. nice.


and I am still waiting for one of you to square for me how Obama's Medicare cuts actually cut more for poor seniors, and start the cuts 8 years earlier for current retirees who have had no chance to plan.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Redress said:
Right, go back and show where I said effective rate? Nominal rates are going down..

Pointing out that they are different does nothing. Nominal rates going down means you pay less, unless that is entirely offset by closing loopholes and eliminating deductions.
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precisely - what matters is not the nominal, but the effective tax rates. ;)

So the 20 % of those making less than 50k do not count now?
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if they are taking itemized deductions, then would you say it is likely that they are doing so because that reduces their tax bill? :)
 
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Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

cpwill said:
precisely - what matters is not the nominal, but the effective tax rates. ;)
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Right, but nominal affects effective.

if they are taking itemized deductions, then would you say it is likely that they are doing so because that reduces their tax bill? :)
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And when those deductions go away(which is very possible since no one is willing to say what deductions), will they not be paying a higher effective tax rate? Which is the essensce of the change, reduce taxes for the wealthy, pay for it by higher taxes on the poor and middle class, and reduce programs that benefit those poor and middle class.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Kandahar said:
Umm yes, generally that is the case. It's true that not all white people overtly use racial epithets or stereotypes; that's probably more related to Obama's grandmother's generation, which grew up in an openly racist society.

But often discrimination is more subtle. White people are more likely to be perceived as competent workers than minorities, even under exactly the same circumstances. Blacks are more likely to be arrested for possession of marijuana than whites, despite actually using marijuana LESS than whites.

I remember reading a study a while back, where psychologists showed white participants a political commercial which urged them to oppose a certain government social program for the poor. After they watched the commercial, the psychologists surveyed them to find out their views on the program. Unbeknownst to the participants, the psychologists actually showed them one of two versions of the same commercial. The two versions were identical except in one version, there is an image of a black family claiming benefits, and in the other version there is an image of a white family claiming benefits. The people who watched the version with the black family were MUCH less likely to support the program. So yes, the key to getting white people to oppose government assistance to the poor seems to be to subtly remind them that the assistance helps black people. (Republicans figured this out a long time ago.)

Racial prejudice is a lot more entrenched in our society than merely being able to get through a conversation with a black person without blurting out "nigger."



Obama's statement is mostly accurate, and even if it wasn't, racism against white people is nowhere close to on par with racism against black people...and trying to draw a false equivalence between the two is usually rooted in racial resentment.
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Quoted for Truth.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

sawyerloggingon said:
Interesting you can't defend the original statements we are talking about, you have to use the term "nigga" as a straw man, next.
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Interesting your ridiculous comment gets destroyed and your only reply is "straw man". :shrug:
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

kandahar said:
umm yes, generally that is the case. It's true that not all white people overtly use racial epithets or stereotypes; that's probably more related to obama's grandmother's generation, which grew up in an openly racist society.

But often discrimination is more subtle. White people are more likely to be perceived as competent workers than minorities, even under exactly the same circumstances. Blacks are more likely to be arrested for possession of marijuana than whites, despite actually using marijuana less than whites.

I remember reading a study a while back, where psychologists showed white participants a political commercial which urged them to oppose a certain government social program for the poor. After they watched the commercial, the psychologists surveyed them to find out their views on the program. Unbeknownst to the participants, the psychologists actually showed them one of two versions of the same commercial. The two versions were identical except in one version, there is an image of a black family claiming benefits, and in the other version there is an image of a white family claiming benefits. The people who watched the version with the black family were much less likely to support the program. So yes, the key to getting white people to oppose government assistance to the poor seems to be to subtly remind them that the assistance helps black people. (republicans figured this out a long time ago.)

racial prejudice is a lot more entrenched in our society than merely being able to get through a conversation with a black person without blurting out "nigger."



obama's statement is mostly accurate, and even if it wasn't, racism against white people is nowhere close to on par with racism against black people...and trying to draw a false equivalence between the two is usually rooted in racial resentment.
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qft... 56789
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Kandahar said:
Umm yes, generally that is the case. It's true that not all white people overtly use racial epithets or stereotypes; that's probably more related to Obama's grandmother's generation, which grew up in an openly racist society.

But often discrimination is more subtle. White people are more likely to be perceived as competent workers than minorities, even under exactly the same circumstances. Blacks are more likely to be arrested for possession of marijuana than whites, despite actually using marijuana LESS than whites.

I remember reading a study a while back, where psychologists showed white participants a political commercial which urged them to oppose a certain government social program for the poor. After they watched the commercial, the psychologists surveyed them to find out their views on the program. Unbeknownst to the participants, the psychologists actually showed them one of two versions of the same commercial. The two versions were identical except in one version, there is an image of a black family claiming benefits, and in the other version there is an image of a white family claiming benefits. The people who watched the version with the black family were MUCH less likely to support the program. So yes, the key to getting white people to oppose government assistance to the poor seems to be to subtly remind them that the assistance helps black people. (Republicans figured this out a long time ago.)

Racial prejudice is a lot more entrenched in our society than merely being able to get through a conversation with a black person without blurting out "nigger."



Obama's statement is mostly accurate, and even if it wasn't, racism against white people is nowhere close to on par with racism against black people...and trying to draw a false equivalence between the two is usually rooted in racial resentment.
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And, we have our fellow members of our community to thank for that reaction.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

sawyerloggingon said:
And there is the difference between liberals and conservatives, libs see different groups of people as victims, as oppressed or oppressor whereas conservatives just see people.
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Lol. Sure. Unless they're black, Jewish, women etc. Then they're brainwashed zombies right? ;)
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

sawyerloggingon said:
And there is the difference between liberals and conservatives, libs see different groups of people as victims, as oppressed or oppressor whereas conservatives just see people.
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Here's the definition of "victim": One who is harmed or killed by another

In the world, there are people (many people in fact) who are harmed by other individuals. To acknowledge their existence is to simply acknowledge reality. Consequently, when SB and others mention victims, they are not arguing that victims are incapable of overcoming the obstacles that they face and the harm that has been done to them nor are they arguing that victims are less "people" than other groups. What they, including myself, are arguing is that some people are harmed by other people - some more than others. If you choose to deny this fact, then you have chosen to deny reality. I find it odd that you or anyone else would be proud of denying reality, so perhaps you might want to revise your argument since it turns out that you ended up complementing liberals and shortchanging the rest.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

cpwill said:
ah. so conservatives are racist because you know that they secretly are, and women have vaginas which require healthcare, while men have penises, which don't. got it.

:roll: "special values and needs". what utter bunk. the standard is equality before the law.
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WTF... massive logic fail. Go back and tell me exactly where I said the conservatives are racist and are secretly racist. I wasn't inferring the GOP is racist either, nor do I think that in general. You seem to think that recognizing and acknowledging people have different genitalia and colors of skin is racist and sexist though.

Women wanting candidates to talk about mandatory HPV vaccinations, PP funding, and weigh in on other issues affecting women isn't sexist or putting women's rights and standards above equality.
 
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Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

ThePlayDrive said:
Here's the definition of "victim": One who is harmed or killed by another

In the world, there are people (many people in fact) who are harmed by other individuals. To acknowledge their existence is to simply acknowledge reality. Consequently, when SB and others mention victims, they are not arguing that victims are incapable of overcoming the obstacles that they face and the harm that has been done to them nor are they arguing that victims are less "people" than other groups. What they, including myself, are arguing is that some people are harmed by other people - some more than others. If you choose to deny this fact, then you have chosen to deny reality. I find it odd that you or anyone else would be proud of denying reality, so perhaps you might want to revise your argument since it turns out that you ended up complementing liberals and shortchanging the rest.
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I see a victim when a woman is raped, a person is murdered or robbed, I see no victims in the American society at the present time. If you want to go back in time the Indians were victims, blacks were victims and so on but in the now I think America is as victimless a society that exist on this planet.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

sawyerloggingon said:
I see a victim when a woman is raped, a person is murdered or robbed, I see no victims in the American society at the present time. If you want to go back in time the Indians were victims, blacks were victims and so on but in the now I think America is as victimless a society that exist on this planet.
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This is another denial reality. Again, defining "victim" as "one who is harmed by another", black citizens who are harmed by prejudices are victims of prejudice whether it's in terms of employment discrimination, racial profiling or a host of other things. In fact, nearly every person is a victim at some point in their life. Many white people may also find themselves harmed relative to their race although rarely, if ever, to the extent of other racial groups in the United States.

This is true regardless of what you "see". Some things exist regardless of whether or not you see them. It's unwise to assume that just because you don't see something, it doesn't exist.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

sawyerloggingon said:
Sorry but the Democrats filibustered the civil right act.
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What matters is conservatives today, in these modern times, talk like Civil Rights is a violation of business rights and it goes against the "right to discriminate" and the "right to be racist," because it's not unconstitutional and it's free speech, etc. etc. Businesses would have desegregated themselves, they argue, which is a simple minded argument. You know racists and anti segregationists wouldn't have wanted to eat their breakfast, lunch, and dinner NOT sitting next to some n--ger, right?... and there would have been business catering to them and that way of life, which was the only way of life before. You can bet your ass there would have been restaurants like that in those days, well actually, there already were.

Arguing that businesses would have desegregated themselves because there was a profit movie, is like arguing there is a profit motive for straight bars and gay bars to merge together. Then everybody would have one bar. Violence would have occurred against business establishments no matter what they did. Crosses would have been burning in front of desegregated bars.

Conservatives argue against against modern day desegregation and call Brown v School Board "judicial activism" and wonder why the majority of black people vote for the other party.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

SheWolf said:
What matters is conservatives today, in these modern times, talk like Civil Rights is a violation of business rights and it goes against the "right to discriminate" and the "right to be racist," because it's not unconstitutional and it's free speech, etc. etc. Businesses would have desegregated themselves, they argue, which is a simple minded argument. You know racists and anti segregationists wouldn't have wanted to eat their breakfast, lunch, and dinner NOT sitting next to some n--ger, right?... and there would have been business catering to them and that way of life, which was the only way of life before. You can bet your ass there would have been restaurants like that in those days, well actually, there already were.

Arguing that businesses would have desegregated themselves because there was a profit movie, is like arguing there is a profit motive for straight bars and gay bars to merge together. Then everybody would have one bar. Violence would have occurred against business establishments no matter what they did. Crosses would have been burning in front of desegregated bars.

Conservatives argue against against modern day desegregation and call Brown v School Board "judicial activism" and wonder why the majority of black people vote for the other party.
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Don't try to teach history to a Conservative. You'd have better luck making a horse drink water.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Redress said:
See, this is why conservatives never understand why they drive away blacks and women. Let me explain: blacks are proportionally far more likely to, for whatever reason, be low income. Republican budget plan calls for changing tax brackets making the top end pay much less, but to offset this wants to cut unspecified tax loopholes. Now we all know that some of those loopholes and deductions will be ones that low income people use too. Therefore the republicans want to cut taxes for the mostly rich white guys, while raising taxes on the poorer people, who are, guess what, much more likely to be black. But it is brainwashing for blacks to vote democrat...

Then you have republic ans passing bills requiring women to get objects shoved up their vagina to exercise their constitutional rights. Man, can't imagine why women would not rush to vote republican...

And that is the crux. Without identifying gender or race, republican policy still is aimed at to benefit those who are, mostly, white, and mostly male.
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The only time I have heard him complain about inequality, racism, and sexism, it's racism and sexism towards the white man. Affirmative Action is racist towards whites. Desegregation is big government. Women and minorities are equal, feminists are man haters, Jesse and Sharpton have nothing to complain about. Hate Crime legislation is discriminatory.

Everybody seems to be equal except the white man.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Kandahar said:
I agree. Republican policies have an overwhelmingly negative impact on women and minorities, which drives them away. However, I don't think that that explains ALL of the voting patterns; blacks are much more likely to vote Democrat than whites at every level of the economic spectrum. A lot of it is the racially-tinged rhetoric that Republicans commonly use: Newt Gingrich calling Obama the "food stamp president," Rick Perry telling a room full of white South Carolina Republicans that they are at war with the federal government, Ronald Reagan conjuring up the image of "welfare queens," etc.

I think the same thing may apply to women, in terms of being repulsed by Republican rhetoric. Aside from the Republican policies that directly adversely affect them, I think women generally have less interest than men do in proving how big their penis is (i.e. "stand your ground" laws, endless wars, no gun regulations whatsoever, etc.)
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I agree with the southern strategy and the food stamp president and Welfare Queen stuff, which is mostly recent.

As a woman, the most repulsive thing occurring in their move to shut down PP. I have never had an abortion at PP, but I have used their services for birth control and general health. PP is a national brand. There is nothing else that compares to PP. The only thing conservatives have offered women are Crisis Pregnancy Centers, and they don't give a **** about a woman's health. They just offer free pregnancy tests and ultrasounds to talk us out of having an abortion, and they have even admitted to giving out info that isn't factual just to scare females away from abortion clinics. If the GOP were actually trying to give women an alternative to PP before defunding them and shutting them down, then maybe I wouldn't be so repulsed.

But on the other hand, they have aligned themselves with religious organizations to prevent access to birth control, so I really don't think the GOP cares about women. So many women take birth control, and they would love to remove PP from us and allow religious orgs to permit coverage for it. :2mad:
 
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