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Are all black men brainwashed? (Read Warning: post #540)

Are all black men brainwashed?


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Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

I missed it Gimme, sorry.

Welfare has only recently been reformed. It's much better now than it used to be, but the bones of creating dependency aren't gone -- either in the system or in the mindset of people who see it as an entitlement and means to an end.

You say I want to blame the victim. No. I want to blame the system that created the victim: a failing school system and a welfare system, only recently somewhat reformed, that makes getting on the dole a job objective.

I am also not talking specifically about blacks. I'm talking about all inner-city poor.
You just keep on ignoring the fact that people who cannot get work will require welfare. A society that does not match jobs to education will have large numbers unemployed and they will require welfare. Welfare is not what people aspire to. Not everyone is going to become engineers, we would not have enough of those jobs available to meet that demand. Germany has a 2 track system, higher academic track AND a vocational track. They protect their industries, they don't allow cheap foreign products in undercutting their industrial base. We do not do that, we allow corporations to do want they want. When you do this, you will have what we have, large numbers of underutilized workers. I believe one the biggest reasons we don't have kids interested in learning is because they see that it does not have a future. They see their parents not getting ahead, not increasing their REAL economic standing. Again, I am going back to economic mobility....the subject you keep avoiding. You cannot have economic mobility when the middle steps are being removed.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Yes, but why don't they want to be in school?

The problem is that some people think that when a kid "doesn't want to be in school", then that's the end of the conversation. In other words, if they don't want to be in school, then there isn't anything that can be done to help them succeed.
you nailed it. that is my position
The problem with that line of thinking is that it doesn't consider the questions, "can a school practically do anything to make a student want to be there?"
what does one do to make someone who does not want to attend school suddenly desire to attend school
free marijuana? possibly. but how is that doing to advance the educational process
we already offer free food
free tuition and books
what motivates a student to want to learn who has no interest in learning?
... and "do certain schools do more to interest students more than others?"
i agree. students who are more inclined to be tradesmen instead of attending a four-year college would be more inclined to attend classes where trades skills were taught. but recognize, those students WANT to attend to learn something. this is not true for that student - and unfortunately, they comprise a large number of the 30% dropouts - who simply has no interest in learning. no desire to attend school. no desire to elevate their degree of ignorance
The answer to both of those questions is "yes".
as you can see, i do not agree
So unless you can show that all "uninterested" students in poorly performing schools cannot be "made interested" in a practical, cost effective manner in the similar ways to how highly performing schools tend to interest their students, then whether or not students are "interested" is just another obstacle that CERTAIN (usually poor and minority) schools have failed to address.
i cannot meet your test. no one can. you would always be able to assert that there is another option available to somehow motivate that unmotivated kid
but i can reference my wife's present experience as an educator, at a nationally ranked top ten public high school. it's an IB school which also has an AP program. those students, who are motivated to do that advanced work, are also willing to expend the effort necessary to receive their IB diploma/AP credits. but the school has a general studies curriculum which will lead to a general HS diploma and cause one to be eligible for college if so motivated. additionally this school, which is larger than many colleges, offers a wide range of trade skills, ranging from culinary to carpentry to automotive to cosmetology. the school also has a program which allows its students to attend the local (also nationally ranked) community college to expand on those tradesman programs.
this loquacious description is offered to exhibit the wide ranging opportunities students have to receive a high school education which would meet their needs. but despite that expansive list of offerings, coupled with the premiere teaching talent in the region, there are many who simply choose not to take advantage of what is available to them. by estimate my wife contends about 1/4 of the white kids and 1/3 of the black students (in the regular studies/trades curricula) simply do not want to do the work. they are often absent without satisfactory reason and are destined to fail because they are unable or unwilling to do the work. in this state students can attend public school until they graduate or reach their 22nd birthday. those from homes which receive public assistance add to the amount received if they are found attending public school. so, while they are registered to attend, their purpose is not to receive an education but to enhance the amount of public assistance their family receives. no surprise, these students are often the ones who are the behavioral problems at the school. the ones who are disruptive and impair the learning of those who actually want to get an education
it is an unfortunate reality, but it is reality. there are a large number of students who simply are unmotivated to get an education. while you insist there are ways to motivate such students, i have not seen your solutions to this problem being proffered to the rest of us
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Anyone who has participated in construction has worked in plumbing, if you were in that trade for any length of time would know that. The formalized certification requirement is not much when you already have had hands-on experience. Any shortage of plumbers is simply a matter of certification because those who have the skills set right now are in great numbers. Again, it is a BS point.



you are right. especially since these things are not occurring.
More BS. The middle class jobs have been hit tremendously
.what is occurring is that American society is bifurcating. let me know when you are willing to actually look at the stats rather than simply ranting.
US society is splitting in two on ECONOMIC LEVELS.....not because of "behavior".
 
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Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

You just keep on ignoring the fact that people who cannot get work will require welfare. A society that does not match jobs to education will have large numbers unemployed and they will require welfare. Welfare is not what people aspire to. Not everyone is going to become engineers, we would not have enough of those jobs available to meet that demand. Germany has a 2 track system, higher academic track AND a vocational track. They protect their industries, they don't allow cheap foreign products in undercutting their industrial base. We do not do that, we allow corporations to do want they want. When you do this, you will have what we have, large numbers of underutilized workers. I believe one the biggest reasons we don't have kids interested in learning is because they see that it does not have a future. They see their parents not getting ahead, not increasing their REAL economic standing. Again, I am going back to economic mobility....the subject you keep avoiding. You cannot have economic mobility when the middle steps are being removed.

It's exactly what most poor people aspire to. In most cases, poverty is a choice. I know plenty of poor people who are perfectly able to get a job, but aren't ambitious enough to get a job, because drawing welfare is easier.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Ah, yes, Here we agree. (I love common ground.) In the matter we're discussing, elected representatives made a decision not to support PP. If my elected representatives make a decision to cut the military budget...or increase the military budget...then that's the way it is. This was done by a vote of Congress. Not Maggie sittin' around grumping about how my tax dollars are spent.

And that's why people who want Planned Parenthood well-funded don't vote for Republicans who are opposed to funding it. If you see that as a common ground, I don't see why you have to wonder if certain groups are brainwashed because they don't vote for the party that want to take the tax dollar away from the programmes they support, it's not something that's hard to understand.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

What does having the opinion that welfare programs that in the past have offered a handout instead of a hand up is just another form of marginalizing and figuratively enslaving black people have to do with hating them?

It has to do with the thinking that blacks who take "hands out" are slaves, like being "enslaved". See the offensiveness in that yet? If that's what you think being "enslaved" is, you need to take a history lesson. Welfare is available in almost all advanced western economy, people don't call those who need it "enslaved". And who marginalise them? The people who put out the message that they are lazy, scheming, brainwashed addicts.

You want to talk about brainwashed, where did the "hand out not hand up" come from? The conservative establishment does a good job of keeping its flock in tune with the conservative mentra.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Anyone who has participated in construction has worked in plumbing, if you were in that trade for any length of time would know that. The formalized certification requirement is not much when you already have had hands-on experience. Any shortage of plumbers is simply a matter of certification because those who have the skills set right now are in great numbers.

what a fascinating claim. can you provide evidence to back it up? if so, allow me to join you in the effort to strike down state certification limitations.

More BS. The middle class jobs have been hit tremendouslyUS society is splitting in two on ECONOMIC LEVELS.....not because of "behavior".

no, the inability of our public education to adequately equip our middle-performers for an employment atmosphere marked by accelerating change is indeed one of our key problems, but when you are talking about the actual destruction of wealth in this nation and the bifurcation of society, you are talking about trends that (at least, right now) are definitely being driven primarily by behavioral forces. Divorce being the biggest. You can divide Americans into the people who have gotten and stayed married and those who have gotten divorced one or more times and/or are currently not married (especially to the other parent of their children), and you will have as neatly divided America into it's upper and lower income halves as any other measure available.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

I am not going to say all black men are brainwashed but many of them are conditioned to think that all or most whites are racists and out to get them. Also anyone, white or black or otherwise (and their are plenty) who mindlessly follow Sharpton and Jackson's racist asses cannot think for themselves.

That's probably the first time I have seen a poster say minorities are brainwashed.

Personally I don't understand why it's impossible to think minorities and the way they vote and think, or their beliefs can't be valid on some level. It just can't be be valid of minorities to think the way they do, so they must all be brainwashed.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

what a fascinating claim. can you provide evidence to back it up? if so, allow me to join you in the effort to strike down state certification limitations.
Where did I say anything about "striking down" anything? What a totally dishonest inference. You take a 2009 article that speculates on projected "shortages" when new construction is at an all time low.



no, the inability of our public education to adequately equip our middle-performers for an employment atmosphere marked by accelerating change is indeed one of our key problems, but when you are talking about the actual destruction of wealth in this nation and the bifurcation of society, you are talking about trends that (at least, right now) are definitely being driven primarily by behavioral forces. Divorce being the biggest. You can divide Americans into the people who have gotten and stayed married and those who have gotten divorced one or more times and/or are currently not married (especially to the other parent of their children), and you will have as neatly divided America into it's upper and lower income halves as any other measure available.
Ah, I see.....the "actual destruction of wealth in this nation", "right now", is being caused by "divorce"......not the Bush recession, not the real decline in household wealth caused by the housing bust.....not the evaporation of large numbers of good paying middle income jobs...it is really all about "divorce".

What is in the water over there?

Puzzle me this: Are you looking at the chicken or the egg? One the biggest factors in the stability of a marriage is its economics. If job security is there, incomes are adequate, that creates the basis for a strong marriage. It isn't everything for a marriage, but it is pretty critical. So if you have an argument that divorce is "destroying wealth", could it be that you are looking at it upside down, in that a cause of divorce is economic problems? There are a number of reasons why couples divorce, but since the 70's the stats have stabilized, there hasn't been a big upturn after the advent of "no fault" divorce (and if you want to force people to stay in an unhappy relationship I'd like to see your rationale), but I really think you have it all backwards.
 
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Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

No more or less than people who think war is destructive should be forced to fund the gigantic military complex or foreign invasions with their tax dollar. If everyone get to decide what every cent of their tax dollar will or will not fund, many of the things essential to the country wouldn't get funded.

Conservatives don't want taxpayers funding PP at all, not just abortions, but they have no issue with making all taxpayers fund pro-life Crisis Pregnancy Centers. They clearly and obviously want taxpayers to fund their beliefs, which matters everything seem worse considering their stance on this entire issue.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

It has to do with the thinking that blacks who take "hands out" are slaves, like being "enslaved". See the offensiveness in that yet? If that's what you think being "enslaved" is, you need to take a history lesson. Welfare is available in almost all advanced western economy, people don't call those who need it "enslaved". And who marginalise them? The people who put out the message that they are lazy, scheming, brainwashed addicts.

You want to talk about brainwashed, where did the "hand out not hand up" come from? The conservative establishment does a good job of keeping its flock in tune with the conservative mentra.

You have a very strange take. But not so different than people who see racism behind every bush.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

you want me to prove a negative? no - you argued a positive claim: that the GOP wants to "shut down PP". So far all you have provided evidence of is Republicans saying they don't want to give taxpayer dollars to PP; which is fine. We don't give taxpayer dollars to lots of organizations that sell goods or services. Sam Adams brewery, for example.

I could certainly see your point if you wished to make it that many conservatives wish to (in most cases) end abortion. But, as you yourself point out, PP =/= abortion.

Here's the thing, I believe that the majority of pro lifers want to end Planned Parenthood. I have been to enough debate groups and have seen enough pro-lifers make attacks on PP. I have heard people claim that PP gives out faulty condoms just so they can preform more abortions. PP is racist, PP targets the poor, and killing poor unborn children and promotes genocide, etc. etc. and all other kinds of idiotic statements and attacks.

The last thing any pro lifers do is donate money to PP or talk about what a great foundation PP is. If you think Conservatives want to see PP continue as an organization to help women, then that's your damn opinion. And I don't have to prove any evidence to support my own damn opinions.

I feel my opinion is justified and valid. Social conservatives want to shut down PP as badly as they want to prevent gay marriage. When the GOP started blindly attacking ALL funding to PP, after a video went viral making PP look like a corrupt industry, they were appealing to the pro lifers, specifically these pro lifers who hate PP.

Pro lifers want to shut down PP. If pro lifers didn't, and pro-lifers put women's health above ending access to affordable women's healthcare, we wouldn't have seen the Susan G. Komen controversy.

Can you argue differently or convince me to contrary? Because if you can't, then I have no reason but to believe most pro lifers are not pro PP, and GOP isn't either.
 
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Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Ah, yes, Here we agree. (I love common ground.) In the matter we're discussing, elected representatives made a decision not to support PP. If my elected representatives make a decision to cut the military budget...or increase the military budget...then that's the way it is. This was done by a vote of Congress. Not Maggie sittin' around grumping about how my tax dollars are spent.

The argument was based on ending abortion funding, but they blindly stopped ALL funding to PP. That's the real problem I have with the issue and the way it was handled. Arguments were made about it eventually costing taxpayers more money in terms of poor women not having access to family planning. Medicaid (in my state, and I assume it's the same in every state), does not pay for female sterilization.

I know somebody on welfare, and she had five kids by the time she was 19. She had two sets of twins. She wanted her tubes tied, but Medicaid wouldn't pay for any cost. PP is a great option to help somebody like her, but these social conservative pro lifers attacked PP funds blindly.

They didn't even seem to think or want to consider the arguments of how much money it would cost in an increased demand of social services, uninsured pregnant women in need of prenatal care, etc.

The entire basis of the argument is pro-lifer, which really isn't practical. They can't end abortion legally, so they attack PP because it provides them. That's all it comes down to.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Not all, just the ones who vote republican...

No, you mean the one's who vote Democrat...
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

You have a very strange take. But not so different than people who see racism behind every bush.
It is not "strange" at all, you decided to equate welfare for blacks with being a slave, and then you complain about racism being brought up. It is so dishonest.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Well, what party is responsible for enslaving blacks within our welfare system? Which party made sure they got a hand out instead of a hand up? And which party has tried the hardest to reform that system?

I don't think that that argument is going to work. Just attacking the Dems won't prove reason for them to move to the other side. A lot of people also feel that equating black people with welfare is also racist, courtsey of Reagan's Welfare Queen campaign, and currently the largest percentage of people of welfare is white and Latino now.

I think the other party should think of a better way to give a "hand up" with policies than make an anti-Democrat Party argument central to welfare.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

not at all - that people become addicted to easy, free government handouts is precisely a portion of the conservative argument here.

lol... I don't think people are addicted to it. Addiction is an entirely different type of emotion and psychical existence. People need welfare, but not because they are mentally addicted to it, but because they know it's easier to stay on welfare than try to make it at a min wage job at McDonald's the rest of their life. People can live better on welfare than they can working and dealing with stress, medical bills, rent, etc.

The welfare system needs to be reformed. It should encourage people to work, and should probably be paid out based on your willingness to work and inability to live above the poverty line, not just the amount of babies you have.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

I realize that not all addictions are a choice, but there is no circumstance that I can imagine where someone goes "I have to go get that welfare payment or else I will go through horrible levels of shame/dispair/depression, whatever"

Yeah, your example works in cases of things like sexual fetishes, ptsd, or whatever

We don't exactly have a bunch of Welfare Addicts hanging around outside the welfare office and begging office workers, "I'll suck your d*ck if you can get one more welfare check a month... just one more check, that's all I need."
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

I've already told you that I was going to go back edit it to "many black men." But you don't want to hear that. You want to call me out in a post.

My vote is "No," by the way.

Alright, MaggieD, I know you have some conservative views some of which go alittle outside the social norms, but I attribute that moreso to lack of exposure to many facets of life outside of the Chicagoland area than I do racial tendencies. Therefore, before responding I would like to know what brought on the "(many) black men are brainwashed" statement in the first place? Was this a general statement or were you addressing a specific issue? What exactly as we suppose to be brainwashed about? Point me to the thread/article/statement/reference source in question so that Black men can digest the contents and judge for ourselves the merits of your pychological assessment of us.
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Politically the US black population is essentially monolithic, far more so than any other demographic. I expect that's where the idea of brainwashing comes from.

Monolithic? In other words, what you're really trying to say is we all think and act alike. As such, we must vote alike, right? Is that your assessment of African American behavior and/or pyschology? What brings you to such a conclusion? Moreover, what makes you an expert of African American behavior to project such a narrow viewpoint on people of this ethic group? Are you Black? Have you taken a course in African American studies? What qualifies your statement?
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Alright, MaggieD, I know you have some conservative views some of which go alittle outside the social norms, but I attribute that moreso to lack of exposure to many facets of life outside of the Chicagoland area than I do racial tendencies. Therefore, before responding I would like to know what brought on the "(many) black men are brainwashed" statement in the first place? Was this a general statement or were you addressing a specific issue? What exactly as we suppose to be brainwashed about? Point me to the thread/article/statement/reference source in question so that Black men can digest the contents and judge for ourselves the merits of your pychological assessment of us.
Just click on the arrow next to her name in her post in the OP to see the context of the quote.

It's also worth nothing that she didn't tell me that she was going to back and edit it. She said that she "almost" went back and didn't. So correct quote is, in fact, "all black men".
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Did you read Blackdog's posts at #43?

All/many/most makes a huge difference.

I have not suggested that black men are more susceptible to brainwashing. I'm saying the messages they often get are messages of victimology.

As a Black man who grew up in Gary, IN - a neighboring city south-east of Chicago - I have NEVER saw myself as a victim of society nor do I believe that just because I am a Black man that I must fit the mold of Black social stereo-types.

I DON'T wear the so-called "trendy" clothes that many of my peers wore, i.e., Nikes shoes, Harringbon gold necklaces, FUBU attire.

I DON'T speak "Ebonics"; I speak very much the way I type which is to say I try very hard to use proper English grammer.

I DON'T believe I need to "keep up with the Jones" in order to get ahead.

I DON'T eat Chitterlings, hogmales, fatback, ox tails or many of the other more common ethic foods my peers are known consume mostly because I just didn't grow up on it. My mother didn't prepare such meals often because my father who was Black BTW wouldn't eat it. It might even surprise most posters to learn that this Black man to this day does not use hot sauce on my foods be it chicken, eggs, collard greens or anything else. It's just not something I do, but I recognize it is a condiment closely associated with the African American dining ritual. Does that make me not Black enough? Or was I merely absent from Black Brainwashing 101?

If this poll is an attempt to plug Black people into some socio-political scheme, I'd say you've missed the mark somewhat. While it might be true that a large segment of the African American population tend to vote Democrat, IMHO the reasons behind that are vast. But it starts with understanding how the Republican Party let African Americans down after Reconstruction.

Under Pres. Lincoln, the Republican Party sought to unite the nation, but their mistake was pursuing a path of "separate, but equal". Once that didn't take hold, the "separate" part became the benchmark of the Party of which Conservative Democrats took that ball and ran with it! (KKK anyone?)

Look, I'm willing to concede that a great many Black men and women are lazy, have been held sway by drugs and alcohol, and do subsist off of entitlement programs some from craddle to grave, but many White people would be surprised to learn that this IS also a problem among White Americans, too. So, if the argument is that Blacks tend to vote Democrat because we're promised "handouts" by liberal politicians, I'd say you really don't understand Black folks very well.

It's not a matter of promises; it's a matter of trust. And for the most part, the Republican Party hasn't done much to gain the trust of the African American people. But we can take that matter up in another thread along with how Reconstruction let the Black man down after seeming so promising initially. But this brainwashing thing among Blacks...c'mon...really?
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

wow... 9 'yes' or 'others'.

this country needs razed in nuclear fire, or possibly a new hatian revolution. :whew:

or maybe those 9 voters at least...
 
Re: Are all black men brainwashed?

Monolithic? In other words, what you're really trying to say is we all think and act alike. As such, we must vote alike, right? Is that your assessment of African American behavior and/or pyschology? What brings you to such a conclusion? Moreover, what makes you an expert of African American behavior to project such a narrow viewpoint on people of this ethic group? Are you Black? Have you taken a course in African American studies? What qualifies your statement?

That's exactly what he's saying and he's right. Black folks like myself, who don't tow the line know exactly what treatment we can expect from our, "brothers". Don't we, OV? I know for a fact that you hate blacks that don't walk the line. We're called race traitors, when we aren't, "down", the bull**** that the Libbos tell us we should be down with.

Constantly, it's assumed that I'm white, because I'm a Conservative.
 
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