View Poll Results: How will SCOTUS rule on the Individual Mandate?

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  • SCOTUS will uphold the Individual Mandate

    7 15.56%
  • SCOTUS will strike down the Individual Mandate

    26 57.78%
  • I honestly believe it is too close to call, literally 50/50 either way

    12 26.67%
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Thread: How will SCOTUS rule on the Individual Mandate?

  1. #71
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    Re: How will SCOTUS rule on the Individual Mandate?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    I think you have your list. It's not very long is its problem.
    I want to know who is donating the money to these hospitals that funds the free care.
    Taxpayers and charities.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  2. #72
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    Re: How will SCOTUS rule on the Individual Mandate?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    I think you have your list. It's not very long is its problem.
    I want to know who is donating the money to these hospitals that funds the free care.
    Exactly ... they would be completely tax funded and more expensive then any mandate or the current out of control highest cost system.

    There is no politician foolish enough to want to build such ... she is clueless.

  3. #73
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    Re: How will SCOTUS rule on the Individual Mandate?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Taxpayers and charities.
    You left out another source of funding, those with insurance. Insurance pays a fixed amount for a specific service. If the hospital can do it at a lower cost they can use the difference to pay for other expenses. And, don't forget that the Tea Party family is paying a small amount from the wife's check.

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    Re: How will SCOTUS rule on the Individual Mandate?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Taxpayers and charities.
    I have to add. The Tea Party family hasn't enough income to result in requiring them to pay much in taxes. My wife an I have had sufficient income to pay significant taxes. They were demonstrating against Obama Care we were demonstrating for Obama Care at a federal building that afternoon. They owed the health care system lots of money. We paid all our health care bills and part of theirs. Plus we paid for the very inefficient paperwork system that effectively transfers their cost to our health care system to us. If the law would have allowed the hospital to refuse him care our costs would be lower, but he'd be dead. There are more sad details to the Tea Party family's story about why he got sick, but enough for now.

  5. #75
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    Re: How will SCOTUS rule on the Individual Mandate?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Okay. Look at it this way. If all hospitals are public hospitals, quality of care will decline. There is no doubt about that. I have worked in both public, private, and not-for-profit hospitals. If you need care, and you can't afford it, the public hospital is available for treatment. You may not get the best treatment available, but your immediate needs will be met. As a pediatrician whom I worked with pointed out to me, some 27 years ago, when I worked on the pediatric unit of a public hospital: the wealthy pay with their money, and the poor pay with their time. You aren't going to get fast and easy health care in a public system. That's just the reality of the situation, and it's the same as we see with European nations who have 100% public care. It's inefficient, the waiting periods are long, and you pretty much have to take what you can get. At least it's care, and at least you can receive it regardless of your ability to pay.
    I prefer a mixed of public and private hospitals, but public hospitals are not serving everybody's needs. Visiting the ER as needed is entirely different when it comes to long term care and going to a family doctor to be healthy. I read an article today about how people with no insurance or not very good insurance, go to the ER more than average. That has been a well known fact for a long time, and such individuals are not as healthy as others with insurance.

    And there is also a difference between the rich, poor, and uninsured. A lot of well off people can suddenly find themselves without insurance for any reason... a lot of business owners I know, don't have insurance... a lot of independent business consultants don't get insurance either. Having a good job and no insurance, also excludes these people from the benefits of public funded hospitals. It's based on income after all.

    We live in a country where going to doctor is a decision about our health, it's a financial decision... and we are less healthier as a result.

    And personally, as somebody who lived in Europe, the waiting list wasn't long to go to the doctor when I needed one. Nor is it long according to my Canadian friends for them. The waiting list in America can be ridiculously long in it's own right, especially if you are a new patient. Going to the ER or to Urgent Care is faster in America than trying to see a doctor regularly.

    Excluding some people from healthcare and health insurance plans isn't a good solution to the argument of waiting in line to see a doctor. There are many other places to start by addressing the long wait lines, such as the percentage of doctors to people. Germany has one of the highest percentages of doctors to every person that I am aware of.

    America has serious health care issues that need to be addressed and fixed. America doesn't have to follow any other countries model, but America does need to get it together.

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    Re: How will SCOTUS rule on the Individual Mandate?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    To the bolded: government regulations. An institution which doesn't rely on outside payor sources can provide care in a more efficient manner, and they aren't bogged down in bureaucratic crap. They provide a service that is focused on the patient, and meeting the patient's needs. I have worked as an RN for 28 years now. The more regulations we have to comply with, the more hours are spent on non-patient care related bull****.
    So Shriners Hospital doesn't focus on the patient needs? I have seen public funded health programs in action. I know they have a lot of regulations, and they one here isn't allowed to give patients certain kinds of medicine per regulations. Yeah, there is a lot of crap to deal with, but they still treat the people with respect and give them proper care.

    In my state, there are huge taxes private hospitals have to pay... Private hospitals have their own baggage to deal with, such as massive bad debts, uninsured abusing the services, and refusing to treat people based on their insurance and financial status. That's a lot of red tape the private sector has designed for itself to wade and cut through before giving the patient any care or trying to save their life.

    I don't know how you simply reach the conclusion that private hospitals provide the best and most efficient care. If you are an excellent RN at a private hospital, then you should still be an excellent RN at a public hospital.

  7. #77
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    Re: How will SCOTUS rule on the Individual Mandate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    You really are clueless.

    There are for profit and non profit hospitals. The non profit and for profit hospitals expect patients to pay their bills and will take anyone to collections to do so.

    Medical issues are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the United States.

    If you start your own business ... or work for the many companies who do not provide insurance and you have an accident and a few days in ICI and and another week as inpatient will land you about a 100,000 bill. There is no "public" hospital to arrive without insurance for 'people who are not insured".

    The NP will will go after you until you pay your last penny and then the rest of your care will spread to others through astronomical cost.

    It is irresponsible to not have at least catastrophic insurance and even more irresponsible that out country has a system that make sit almost impossible for many to have insurance or for some ... to be negligent simply because of EMTALA and other laws in which catastrophic care is given and others simply pay for it.

    Ridiculous ... Do you realize how expensive "public" hospitals would be in very region that offered "free" care as you have imagined. Why not HCR ... simply organizing a system with a choice of private or public that citizens can afford. A public option payer would have offered competition to a monopoly market.
    The public hospital in my area offers care based on income... so you don't get free healthcare unless you are totally unemployed. If you don't have insurance but you are employed for any reason... part time employee, own a business, or make good money as a independent contractor, you will pay out the ass.

  8. #78
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    Re: How will SCOTUS rule on the Individual Mandate?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    1) I really couldn't care less what other countries supposedly think. I hear the anti gun nuts say this sort of crap all the time. Yet those same countries tend to have thousands of their citizens TRYING TO MOVE HERE rather than the other way around

    2) Government mandated "charity" has suppressed private charity which often does a far better job in helping people in need rather than merely creating more dependent pawns of the politicians who hand out goodies to the supposed needy.
    just watch the news, people
    look at all the reports of the marches of the citizens in other industrialized nations complaining that they have comprehensive single payer health care
    probably because they receive that health care at a cost not more than 50% of what it is per capita in the USA
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  9. #79
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    Re: How will SCOTUS rule on the Individual Mandate?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    How so? What do you think the purpose of a public hospital is? I'll be interested in what you believe public care is, and where you think the funding comes from. I assure you that clueless is something I am not, when the subject is health care.
    She explained how you're clueless in the rest of your post, which you cut short... Public hospitals don't pay the tab for everybody walking into the door. To get completely free service, you have to meet certain requirements. The uninsured and the unemployed and uninsured, are two very different types of people.

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    Re: How will SCOTUS rule on the Individual Mandate?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Yes, it will work. Charity hospitals are typically excellent at handling serious emergencies. In fact, it's what they usually excel at. If I were in a serious car accident, or shot by a criminal, I would prefer to be careflighted to our nearest public facility, where they deal with trauma on a regular basis.
    I sense some contradictions in your statements...

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    To the bolded: government regulations. An institution which doesn't rely on outside payor sources can provide care in a more efficient manner, and they aren't bogged down in bureaucratic crap. They provide a service that is focused on the patient, and meeting the patient's needs. I have worked as an RN for 28 years now. The more regulations we have to comply with, the more hours are spent on non-patient care related bull****.
    So the public hospitals are more efficient and more patient focused, but you'd trust your life with a public hospital when it comes to an emergency situation?

    I am not sure what you're really trying to say...

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