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Thread: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

  1. #401
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    Re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Lee, the police chief, said in a statement that the police dispatcher's "suggestion" to Zimmerman that he did not need to follow Martin "is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmermann would be required to follow."
    'Stand Your Ground Law' at center of Fla. shooting - Yahoo! News


    And at one point he did stop following. But I am sure that will be ignored.

    Even though the above was only a suggestion, I am also sure you will ignore that the call taker actually told Zimmerman twice, to let him know if Trayvon does anything.
    Those are real instructions.

    But like I said; I am sure those actually instructions will be ignored.
    The bottom line is that Zimmerman was advised not to follow Martin, and, had he not done so, Martin would still be alive and Zimmerman would not be facing murder charges.
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    Re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The bottom line is that Zimmerman was advised not to follow Martin, and, had he not done so, Martin would still be alive and Zimmerman would not be facing murder charges.
    Hindsight is twenty twenty. The real problem here is with the evidence we do have and what the prosecutor has shown, he broke now law under Florida statutes.

    I mean the prosecutor better have more than Martins mother saying that is him screaming when an eye witness says it was indeed Zimmerman. The phone conversation and 911 tapes are also not enough to convict on anything even if taken together.

    So in the end the SA must have something that is more damning that what we know of. Especially if she charged him with murder 2. If she does not have anything else, I don't see how she can win this.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 04-13-12 at 12:33 PM.
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    Re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Hindsight is twenty twenty. The real problem here is with the evidence we do have and what the prosecutor has shown, he broke now law under Florida statutes.

    I mean the prosecutor better have more than Martins mother saying that is him screaming when an eye witness says it was indeed Zimmerman. The phone conversation and 911 tapes are also not enough to convict on anything even if taken together.

    So in the end the SA must have something that is more damning that what we know of. Especially if she charged him with murder 2. If she does not have anything else, I don't see how she can win this.
    I agree to a point. For the evidence that has been shown, I don't see that a crime has been committed.

    However, as I posted in a separate thread, Zimmerman's story just doesn't add up. I am very curious to see the ballistic report on the path of travel of the bullet. I would not be surprised to find out that Martin punched Zimmerman one time. Zimmerman fell down. It is head on the ground from that fall. And Zimmerman then shot Martin.

    Was that still self-defense on Zimmermans part? I don't know.
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    Re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The bottom line is that Zimmerman was advised not to follow Martin, and, had he not done so, Martin would still be alive and Zimmerman would not be facing murder charges.
    Saying, "we do not need you to do that" is not being advised not to do.
    Especially coming from a "Telecommunications call taker".
    Especially since it is only a suggestion.
    Especially since it was only a suggestion that Zimmerman was under no obligation to follow.

    As noted: Ignoring exactly what the call taker told Zimmerman to do.

    What Zimmerman did at this point was not wrong.
    What Zimmerman did at this point was not illegal.
    What Zimmerman did at this point was not improper.
    What Zimmerman did at this point was not outside the bounds of normal behavior.

    Trayvon is dead because what he did was wrong.
    Trayvon is dead because what he did was illegal.
    Trayvon is dead because what he did was improper.
    Trayvon is dead because what he did was outside the bounds of normal behavior.
    Trayvon is dead because of what he himself did.

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    Re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefgator View Post
    I agree to a point. For the evidence that has been shown, I don't see that a crime has been committed.

    However, as I posted in a separate thread, Zimmerman's story just doesn't add up. I am very curious to see the ballistic report on the path of travel of the bullet. I would not be surprised to find out that Martin punched Zimmerman one time. Zimmerman fell down. It is head on the ground from that fall. And Zimmerman then shot Martin.

    Was that still self-defense on Zimmermans part? I don't know.
    Just a note here but Zimmerman had two gashes on the back of his from what I could see in the video. Simply falling down doesn't explain that.
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    Re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefgator View Post
    I agree to a point. For the evidence that has been shown, I don't see that a crime has been committed.

    However, as I posted in a separate thread, Zimmerman's story just doesn't add up. I am very curious to see the ballistic report on the path of travel of the bullet. I would not be surprised to find out that Martin punched Zimmerman one time. Zimmerman fell down. It is head on the ground from that fall. And Zimmerman then shot Martin.

    Was that still self-defense on Zimmermans part? I don't know.
    Neither do I. I'd be willing to bet that he'll be acquitted, unless there is something we don't know right now. Arresting someone for murder is one thing, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt is quite another. Luckily for Zimmerman, we don't lock people up because they're probably guilty, or at least we're not supposed to.

    But the fact remains, if he had followed the advice of the 911 operator, none of this would have happened at all.
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    Re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    But the fact remains, if he had followed the advice of the 911 operator, none of this would have happened at all.
    Shoulda coulda woulda. It is just as possible that Martin might have gone to Zimmermans car and attacked him even if Zimmerman had stayed.

    Point being that your "fact" is irrelevant considering it is not illegal to follow a person. What is relevant is did Zimmerman have a right to defend himself under the circumstances that did happen or did Zimmerman start the fight? We can through out billions and trillions of possible outcomes based on actions or non-actions that could have been taken, but in the end they are ALL just "possibilities" that don't reflect what happened. Which is all that we should judge.
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  8. #408
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    Re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Shoulda coulda woulda. It is just as possible that Martin might have gone to Zimmermans car and attacked him even if Zimmerman had stayed.

    Point being that your "fact" is irrelevant considering it is not illegal to follow a person. What is relevant is did Zimmerman have a right to defend himself under the circumstances that did happen or did Zimmerman start the fight? We can through out billions and trillions of possible outcomes based on actions or non-actions that could have been taken, but in the end they are ALL just "possibilities" that don't reflect what happened. Which is all that we should judge.
    Anything is possible. Some things are highly unlikely, however. Unfortunately, we'll never hear Martin's side of the story.
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    Re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Anything is possible. Some things are highly unlikely, however. Unfortunately, we'll never hear Martin's side of the story.
    Very true. I still think Occam's razor pretty much covers this one.
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  10. #410
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    Re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Anything is possible. Some things are highly unlikely, however. Unfortunately, we'll never hear Martin's side of the story.
    Yeah, I was listening in on NPR and they were talking about how most trials, on the Florida state law, usually have the victim on the stand also. I think it is going to come down to whether the Jury believes or disbelieves Zimmerman. I really hope though that they are selected VERY carefully because if one of the lynch mob, or one one for Zimmerman gets in, we will have a COMPLETELY unfair trial.

    Good luck Zimmerman, unfortunately you will need it.
    I'm coming to see that no matter what law we regulate, be it the stand your ground act, there is never an objective morally right answer to any morale question; in fact, since there are multiple objectively right answers to every moral question that leaves us with a lot of grey area and a lot of black area (not in the racial since).
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