View Poll Results: Do you agree with Florida Law on use of deadly force?

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  • Agree

    48 71.64%
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    16 23.88%
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    2 2.99%
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Thread: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

  1. #391
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    Re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Strawman because it is inconvienient for you to answer? Because you clearly don't get how kids are actin these days. I guess you have never actually worked with youth. That might be it.

    I am NOT ignoring his height and age. 17 is STILL a friggin kid to me. Hell an 18 year old while legally a man, is still naive as hell. Tell me you don't think that? I am almost 23 and I know that. I can think back now at how different I thought when I first entered college and when I was in high school. I certainly was not as rational, or as good at making decisions. Maybe better than Martin, but a side by side with myself now? Lol.

    Oh and did I mention that I am 6'1 and outweigh Martin by 60lbs? I AM about 240 (yea I am a fatty...but it helps that I do Brazillian Jiu Jitsu and Boxing). Do you know how many kids I see coming into the gym that are the EXACT description of Martin? 170 isn't that big. 6'0? Sure...taller than average, but by NO means imposing. Unless of course you count the fact that he is black and tatted up? But if I can see THAT face...you think I am going to pee my pants? Are you kidding? You want to sell Martin off as a Big Huge Tough Thug? Sell that crazy somewhere else, we're all stocked up here.

    Was that a good enough response for you? Or do I need to repeat myself ONE MORE TIME? Trayvon Martin looks like a kid. He is 170 lbs at 6'0. By no means does that make him a giant monsterous figure. That is a 23 on the BMI scale.

    LMAO! You liar You said he had tatoos and that that somehow was part of the reason he wasn't a kid! Are you kidding me? It was a DIRECT response to something you posted. Do I need to go back and highlight it for you? What a joke. The fact is you CLAIMED tatoos had something to do with him being hardcore? Being not a kid? Either way it was something stupid to bring up because a tatoo is just a drawing on the skin. It doesn't change the mental thought process of a 17 year old. It also should not have impacted the decision making of an ADULT MALE that was CC at the time. Especially if he couldn't see them.

    Do you even know what a strawman is?

    Attachment 67125745

    Does that help? Seriously. YOU brought up the gang lingo as if it somehow had a point? I showed you that it was not something valid to bring to the table. Your post of information in itself was a strawman. I just pointed out that gang lingo has permeated our society FAR more than you apperently understand? Again...I guess you don't work with kids.



    Right...because obviously all the information you put down somehow displays that Trayvon was anything more than a dumbass kid? What do you expect from a 17 year old? Perfect decision making that leads to a glammorous life of perfect grades, the right college, and so on? Are you kidding?

    And THERE IT IS! Ladies and gentlemen EXACTLY what I am pointing out. You can CLAIM that Zimmerman was technically correct (which we DO NOT KNOW and can only surmise based upon the evidence), but what is important and MUST be considered as it WILL be the basis of future propaganda and possible legislation...and depending upon verdict...legal precedent.

    Zimmerman...by your own words "messed up," and Martin paid for it. Just because you get attacked, doesn't mean that you didn't provoke it. Jumping up and down the street and yelling racial slurs (which is NOT what Zimmerman did...and I by no means am claiming he was overtly racist because that is a RIDICULOUS claim made by losers like Al Sharpton who use Black inequality, poverty, and bad circumstance to gain his own political power...and he is racist himself anyway...make) is a provocation. Certainly...being attacked for it is not RIGHT. But PERHAPS that is NOT why Martin attacked. PERHAPS it was because he was being followed. When Zimmerman had the choice to INFORM Martin of his itent...he didn't. He just willy nilly reached into his jacket for a cell phone. How would you perceive that? In your almighty wisdom as a cop? Or a security proffesional?

    Come on man. Don't feed me these garbage lines about the technicality of the law. You know that intent is VERY important. I AGREE with you that this was NOT premeditated. It was however STUPID and could have been avoided. Sure Zimmerman even had a "right" to be where he was. But the fact is that while he had a RIGHT...he shouldn't have been there...and that is what I am claiming invalidates his self defense claim. That is probably what the prosecution against him will use too. While certainly standing your ground is one thing...do you stand your ground if you go look for someone after having been in a safe location?

    I said "as a first course of action." Rather than prudence, rationality, and ensurance of safety of those around you or yourself. The last course of action should be to go chase down the bad guy when you and all parties involved in the situation are safe.

    Because point for point response to you is pointless when you ignore direct questions, and claim that every response I have is a strawman. Why should I consider the points you make relevant when you ignore what I say?

    You just want to continue to go back to things that are irrelevant huh? Is it just because you want to win? The fact is that you damn well know that if acting based upon what I said would certainly have NOT landed Zimmerman into hot water. Not to mention you have completely ignored the relevant information I provided after. Again...point for point response is ridiculous with someone like you. Everything I say is a strawman to you. Of course unless you understand that discussion transforms as time progresses.

    You still don't get what I mean by the spirit of the law do you? THE SPIRIT OF THE STAND YOUR GROUND LAW IS THAT ONE HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO STAND THEIR GROUND. Zimmerman had a choice and he made the wrong one. That choice was NOT at the juncture of the conflict. It was at the point of EXITING HIS VEHICLE.

    You as a "SECURITY PROFESSIONAL AND EX COP" damn well know that if you have to shoot someone...that better be the only option you had. Of course what every cop has ever said to me..."kill them...then there is one side of the story." So I don't know? Maybe that is how you think?
    (Sigh) Another strawman rant.

    The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position.

    Again you have no idea what you are talking about and are not understanding what you are reading at all. You are completely ignoring my points and repeating the same exaggerated nonsense over and over. My posts are flying right over your head, and it's a shame.

    Now as soon as you address this...

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    As a Resident of the State of Florida for my ENTIRE life, a Gun Owner, A Concealed Weapon Permit Owner, and as a Citizen of the United States I 100% agree with the Florida law.
    I also live in Florida. I am a certified in the state of Florida as a Security officer and I have my CCW.

    The Castle law removes the "duty to retreat" if you are attacked or someone enters your home, car and place of work or business criminally. Like breaking in through a window. The Stand Your Ground law covers everything else.The stand your ground law just like the castle law does not specify any need to retreat at all from a place you can legally be, period.

    You can see the actual laws here:

    Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    The entire trayvon thing going on...was CLEARLY a violation of Florida law. There is a duty to retreat when that is an option, and standing your ground is only allowed when you cannot retreat (as in into your vehicle, your home). What happened to Trayvon was a disgrace because the man pursued Trayvon. Not to mention Zimmerman should not be allowed to have a gun because of his criminal record.

    Anyway. The Florida law is GREAT.
    If Zimmerman was indeed attacked while returning to his car, he is not guilty at all. He had just as much right to be there as Treyvon, and if Treyvon attacked him was under no obligation to retreat under the law. It is still not illegal to follow someone on the sidewalk as far as the law goes. So even if Zimmer was following Treyvon, he should not have been attacked.

    As for his criminal record. Only 3 things can stop you from owning a gun in Florida. Being forcibly committed into a mental institution. Being convicted of a felony or crime of domestic violence even if a misdemeanor.

    PS Zimmer does not appear to have anything on his record that would disqualify him from owning a firearm.

    Until you are willing to actually address what I am saying, your rants are nothing but pointless strawman fallacy arguments.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 04-12-12 at 07:13 AM.
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    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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  2. #392
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    Re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Johnson View Post
    Nice trolling there.

    How would you feel if you read a disgusting comment like the one you stated above about your flesh and blood.
    You mean if Zimmerman were my son? I'd be proud of him.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
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  3. #393
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    Re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound View Post
    You mean if Zimmerman were my son? I'd be proud of him.
    If I had a son, he'd look just like Zimmerman. Everyone knows that all white guys look alike.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    In their rush to disarm citizens, people are ignoring the fact that Martin attacked Zimmerman and was in the process of killing him by pounding his head into the pavement. This is not justified if Zimmerman was merely following Martin; it's not as if Martin were one of our spies and had to take out an enemy agent trailing him. This wild and deadly over-reaction on Martin's part is evidence of a criminal pattern, which, retroactively, shows that Zimmerman probably had good reason to be suspicious of him in the first place.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

  5. #395
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    Re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound View Post
    You mean if Zimmerman were my son? I'd be proud of him.
    Oh these trolls make my day.
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  6. #396
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    Re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    He did not ignore the dispatcher. The dispatcher suggested he should not follow Martin, it was not a command or order to be ignored.
    Actually, that is a false statement.

    Fact = The dispatcher did not make any suggestions to Zimmerman.
    Last edited by Muhammed; 04-12-12 at 03:59 PM.

  7. #397
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    Re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Moderator's Warning:
    Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]Personal attacks and accusations of trolling are not welcome.
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  8. #398
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    Re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    Actually, that is a false statement.

    Fact = The dispatcher did not make any suggestions to Zimmerman.
    "During the call, a dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was following the person, and then told him, “We don’t need you to do that." - Logging Tape Is Key In Shooting Death*|*Dispatch Magazine On-Line*********

    Fact = A false statement has indeed been made and it was not by me.
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    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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  9. #399
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    Re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    Actually, that is a false statement.

    Fact = The dispatcher did not make any suggestions to Zimmerman.
    "We don't need you to do that, OK?"

    "OK"

    and then he "did that" i.e., followed Martin anyway. Had he not done that, none of this would have happened.
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    Re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    "We don't need you to do that, OK?"

    "OK"

    and then he "did that" i.e., followed Martin anyway. Had he not done that, none of this would have happened.
    Lee, the police chief, said in a statement that the police dispatcher's "suggestion" to Zimmerman that he did not need to follow Martin "is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmermann would be required to follow."
    'Stand Your Ground Law' at center of Fla. shooting - Yahoo! News


    And at one point he did stop following. But I am sure that will be ignored.

    Even though the above was only a suggestion, I am also sure you will ignore that the call taker actually told Zimmerman twice, to let him know if Trayvon does anything.
    Those are real instructions.

    But like I said; I am sure those actually instructions will be ignored.

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