View Poll Results: Do you agree with Florida Law on use of deadly force?

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Thread: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

  1. #31
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Personally I think the SYG law and others like it are chickensh**. IF the concealed carry citizen is considered competent enough to carry around his fellow citizens then he should be allowed to carry around politicians, judges, bars and schools. It seems a bit cowardly those who write these laws don't want concealed carry people around them if possible. It is like they are saying you can carry, just not around me.
    Those places have dedicated and active police forces of far greater concentration than the general public. The argument is that carrying under such circumstance is more likely to be a problem than a solution. I don't agree with that argument but I can understand keeping private guns out of government buildings and places that serve alcohol. I disagree with 'gun free' schools.

    Anyway the SYG laws are a misnomer, there are laws that say when confronted a person must first attempt to flee and if trapped only then can use deadly force to stop violence. That pretty much precluded a 3rd armed party from stopping an assault on a fellow citizen.
    What? SYG = no obligation to flee. Castle Doctrine means no obligation to flee and it doesn't matter if the intruder is armed, in a home.

    How is it a misnomer?
    Last edited by ecofarm; 03-31-12 at 03:08 PM.

  2. #32
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Can you show me where, in the FL statutes, the law specifies that "putting yourself in a dangerous situation by following and approaching someone" nullifies SYG? As far as I know, doing so does not justify battery nor does it nullify ones right to self defense. Such a clause is absurdly subjective and subject to abuse.
    Even the law's author stated that the law would not apply here. Stand your ground implies that you are not obligated to defuse the situation by retreating when trying to defend yourself. Zimmerman did the exact opposite; he followed the suspect. When he followed Martin, Zimmerman escalated the situation. How could Zimmerman not believe that he was escalating the situation when he followed Martin unless he was being very reckless?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    When someone follows you, approaches and asks a question, you're not allowed to hit them (let alone invoke SYG!). SYG does not include possible misdemeanors.
    I only raised this as a possibility. The issue requires greater investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    "Hey, this guy is following me and then approached!!11!!" *bang*
    No. No SYG for Martin unless Z committed a forcible felony.
    We don't know Martin's state of mind. We don't know what the encounter between the two was like, but the fact that it took place at all is the issue.
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  3. #33
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Why does Zimmerman have a lawyer if he hasn't been arrested?
    It seems to me what he needs is a bodyguard, now that the Black Panthers have gotten involved.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Problem is the SYG laws ignores the duty to retreat and in fact escalates conflicts by disregarding the need to deescalate confrontations. Many sherrif offices, district attorneys, police officers and law enforcement organizations speak out against these laws as they see firsthand how tense situations can be escalated by making legal space for using firearms on citizens.

  5. #35
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Why does Zimmerman have a lawyer if he hasn't been arrested?
    You saying he doesn't need one? You don't need to hire a lawyer every time you shoot someone in self defense, but if they turn up unarmed... you'd be a fool not to. Whether or not he was legally in the right in this case, Mr. Zimmerman carried a gun to defend himself with and he used that gun in a situation where his life was in danger. Now his life is still very much in danger, but the gun is useless.

    In a life or death situation, it's important to use the right weapon to defend yourself. Making sure that you always have the right weapon-- in his current situation, a lawyer-- is just being smart.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    It seems to me what he needs is a bodyguard, now that the Black Panthers have gotten involved.
    You're not wrong, but I doubt Mr. Zimmerman can afford a bodyguard; for the most part, lawyers are cheaper. He'll have to rely on his own gun to deal with any would be anti-vigilante lynch mobs.

  6. #36
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    Problem is the SYG laws ignores the duty to retreat and in fact escalates conflicts by disregarding the need to deescalate confrontations. Many sherrif offices, district attorneys, police officers and law enforcement organizations speak out against these laws as they see firsthand how tense situations can be escalated by making legal space for using firearms on citizens.
    When confronted with someone carjacking your, or robbing you, or just going after you because you are not like them, how often does 'running away' work? And how many times to people just get chased down or shot attempting to run away?

    Law enforcement often speaks out against anything that puts citizens rights to defend themselves above police 'protection'.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    When confronted with someone carjacking your, or robbing you, or just going after you because you are not like them, how often does 'running away' work? And how many times to people just get chased down or shot attempting to run away?

    Law enforcement often speaks out against anything that puts citizens rights to defend themselves above police 'protection'.
    You always have the right of self-defense. The problem with the law is it establishes a legal protection for using lethal force without the usual restrictions of Castle law, which is why you can't shoot someone for breaking into your car for instance. Similar situations with SYG laws in place have an tendency to encourage confrontation because now the average citizens feels they have legal backing for confronting the carjacker with their rifle.

    I doubt very much law enforcement wants to make more victims out of people. Besides, as I said, people already have a right to self-defense well before SYG laws were established. THis just expands the area in which legal shootings can happen, and with fewer restrictions.

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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    You always have the right of self-defense. The problem with the law is it establishes a legal protection for using lethal force without the usual restrictions of Castle law, which is why you can't shoot someone for breaking into your car for instance. Similar situations with SYG laws in place have an tendency to encourage confrontation because now the average citizens feels they have legal backing for confronting the carjacker with their rifle.

    I doubt very much law enforcement wants to make more victims out of people. Besides, as I said, people already have a right to self-defense well before SYG laws were established. THis just expands the area in which legal shootings can happen, and with fewer restrictions.
    You should be able to shoot someone for breaking into your car. I guarantee you car theft and car burglary will drop.

  9. #39
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    I guess I'll move to Florida and become a hit-man. Oh, wait, I can stay here and do the dirty deeds for high dollar. I'll just need to catch the targets when they are all alone.
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    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neal N. Bloeme View Post
    You should be able to shoot someone for breaking into your car. I guarantee you car theft and car burglary will drop.
    No, you shouldn't because it isn't a direct threat to your safety.

    Lethal force is a last resort legally, not the first.

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