View Poll Results: Do you agree with Florida Law on use of deadly force?

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  • Agree

    48 71.64%
  • Disagree

    16 23.88%
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    2 2.99%
  • There should be no rule of law

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Thread: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

  1. #301
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Yes, it is...very much so..
    The whole thing was set up on the Biblical "an eye for an eye".
    This is what we should be trying to progress from.
    Right now, there is little difference between the victim and the villain.
    This "progress"may take another thousand years. But today we must take the first step.
    No, we should progress to "an eye for a tooth." A criminal must be considered not as someone who committed a specific crime, but as some enemy of mankind who got caught once and revealed which side he was on. Second, "a tooth for a tooth" is like telling a bank robber all he has to do is give the money back, because that was all his crime was. Any society that allows criminals to live is replacing its life force with a death wish.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Yes, it is...very much so..
    The whole thing was set up on the Biblical "an eye for an eye".
    This is what we should be trying to progress from.
    Right now, there is little difference between the victim and the villain.
    This "progress"may take another thousand years. But today we must take the first step.
    Getting away from the concept of justice isn't progress, but digressing into a less civilized state. No matter how you and others want to excuse and justify criminal behaviors, this makes them more likely to happen, not less. If we had a world full of honest, intelligent, and high-minded individuals, your point might be well-taken. Unfortunately, we are dealing with a world whose population varies widely in intelligence, motivation, capabilities, and mental stability. Justice implies that the scales are balanced. Drifting away from justice will increase criminal activity, because criminal minds are not typically reasonable minds, nor altruistic minds.
    You cannot reason away human failures and blame them on society as a whole, without making society pay for the crimes of the few.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  3. #303
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    By pursuing some kid who probably wasn't doing anything wrong up to the point of the confrontation.
    So what? It's not illegal to follow someone in your own neighborhood, period.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Would you? What if the person started wildly accusing you of being up to no good? If you try to just walk away from the guy and he tries to physically detain you? Are you considering that Treyvon is only a 17 year old kid? Because before you hero worship Zimmerman or clear him of wrong doing...do you accept that he was made a terrible decision that led to a kid getting shot.
    Wow, just wow.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Zimmerman represents ALL of us when he carries. And we cannot accurately discuss whether or not Treyvon DID or DID NOT have a right to attack Zimmerman. If Zimmerman did physically try to detain Treyvon...what does the law say about that? In any case Zimmerman should not have pursued Treyvon.
    Zimmerman represents himself, period. Yes we can discuss it because we do have limited access to some of the reports. We also have Zimmerman's testimony as well as an eye witness. Stop with the strawman.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Thanks. It was wasn't it? I will save them when you do. You started those little digs. Not me.
    And I will continue to point out your ignorant reply's and baseless accusations with no evidence. I will not however insult every security officer etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Made sense to me.
    That does not say much.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Neither did Treyvon. The ONE detail that we need...we don't know. How did Zimmerman and Treyvon end up in their little debaucle? Did Zimmerman make a terrible decision and overreact when he confronted Treyvon? Or did Treyvon just jump Zimmerman when he Zimmerman confronted him?
    According to the evidence we actually have from Zimmerman and an eye witness, Martin did attack Zimmerman as he returned to his car. Anything else on your part ignores the evidence we do have and is nothing but speculation, period.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    It was more than over zealous. It was stupidity. Gloryhounding? Maybe? Racist? Probably not. Paranoid? Maybe. Stupidity. Yes.
    Hmmm... Last time I looked being stupid, racist, paranoid and/or a glory hound is not illegal.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    If you don't understand that...then you don't understand the ethical delima that Zimmerman is in...and I am done. I will not even respond to the rest of the thread. The fact that you are not willing to overlook the perfect LEGAL definition, because of the truly ETHICAL problem that Zimmerman entered into. Zimmerman had a "right" to pursue Treyvon like he was some sort of cop. He got to play "hero" and stop a "criminal." The problem is that Treyvon was just a kid. Sure he is a "6'2 man" but at heart do you think he was anything more than a scared friggin kid? Hell he could have been a stupid kid, but I am willing to bet he was scared.
    I am glad you will no longer be responding because your posts are so utterly devoid of knowledge and common sense it is amazing. At Martins age I was an armature boxer and going into the Army to be an Armor crewman. I am sorry if I saw a short **** like Zimmerman following me I would have laughed.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    As an Ex-cop do you REALLY lack the ability and reason to understand that ethical line that Zimmerman CLEARLY crossed?
    That is for the judge and jury to decide. Since he has not even been arrested, and with the FBI, State, County and local authority's investigating, the fact he has yet to be arrested let alone charged says allot.

    Your hyperbole and strawman arguments are for the birds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #304
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Everything
    .
    Regardless of all the garbage you spewed you missed the MOST IMPORTANT point. It is TOTALLY irrelevant what verdict is rendered in this case. Zimmerman...while possibily (and I say possibily because there has been NO ruling and it is POSSIBLE) is in the Legal right...he is by NO WAY, SHAPE, FORM, SHADE, OR ROUGH ROUNDING SWEEPING STATEMENT...within the spirit of the law. Sure. The Spirit of the law is not the technicality of the law. But there is a difference between doing what is RIGHT, and doing what is technically right. One ends with you never having to deal with shooting another person. The other ends with a dead body and a ton of bad press for anyone and everyone who carries a concealed weapon and is pro self defense.

    Btw...like it or not Zimmerman represents more than just himself. You may think the law is the only place he is represented, but it isn't. The media has had their field day with this, and as relatively recent as all of the decisions have been made, and the beautiful crippling blows that had been dealt to the anti-gun mob...this is not going to help the cause. Every time you strap a gun to your hip legally, you represent the entire group of concealed carry and if you don't act responsibly we can all suffer the consequences.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  5. #305
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Regardless of all the garbage you spewed you missed the MOST IMPORTANT point. It is TOTALLY irrelevant what verdict is rendered in this case. Zimmerman...while possibily (and I say possibily because there has been NO ruling and it is POSSIBLE) is in the Legal right...he is by NO WAY, SHAPE, FORM, SHADE, OR ROUGH ROUNDING SWEEPING STATEMENT...within the spirit of the law.
    Actually yes he does. If he was attacked for any reason he is allowed to defend himself, period. You can yell all you like and that does not change the law or it's spirit.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Sure. The Spirit of the law is not the technicality of the law. But there is a difference between doing what is RIGHT, and doing what is technically right. One ends with you never having to deal with shooting another person. The other ends with a dead body and a ton of bad press for anyone and everyone who carries a concealed weapon and is pro self defense.
    If someone was putting my head into the pavement the threat of serious and deadly injury is great. I would have shot him as well. I would have also been justified in the spirit of the law as well. What happened prior to the attack is only important in that who attacked who first. Following, calling or asking a question does not give anyone the right to attack you, period.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Btw...like it or not Zimmerman represents more than just himself.
    Only to morons who like to think in terms of and make blanket statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    You may think the law is the only place he is represented, but it isn't. The media has had their field day with this, and as relatively recent as all of the decisions have been made, and the beautiful crippling blows that had been dealt to the anti-gun mob...this is not going to help the cause. Every time you strap a gun to your hip legally, you represent the entire group of concealed carry and if you don't act responsibly we can all suffer the consequences.
    It is to bad they give CCW licences to idiots that don't know the law and jump to conclusions without all the evidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #306
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Delete please.
    Last edited by Jryan; 04-08-12 at 10:12 PM. Reason: Bad post
    I'm coming to see that no matter what law we regulate, be it the stand your ground act, there is never an objective morally right answer to any morale question; in fact, since there are multiple objectively right answers to every moral question that leaves us with a lot of grey area and a lot of black area (not in the racial since).
    -Jryan

  7. #307
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Regardless of all the garbage you spewed you missed the MOST IMPORTANT point. It is TOTALLY irrelevant what verdict is rendered in this case. Zimmerman...while possibily (and I say possibily because there has been NO ruling and it is POSSIBLE) is in the Legal right...he is by NO WAY, SHAPE, FORM, SHADE, OR ROUGH ROUNDING SWEEPING STATEMENT...within the spirit of the law. Sure. The Spirit of the law is not the technicality of the law. But there is a difference between doing what is RIGHT, and doing what is technically right. One ends with you never having to deal with shooting another person. The other ends with a dead body and a ton of bad press for anyone and everyone who carries a concealed weapon and is pro self defense.

    Btw...like it or not Zimmerman represents more than just himself. You may think the law is the only place he is represented, but it isn't. The media has had their field day with this, and as relatively recent as all of the decisions have been made, and the beautiful crippling blows that had been dealt to the anti-gun mob...this is not going to help the cause. Every time you strap a gun to your hip legally, you represent the entire group of concealed carry and if you don't act responsibly we can all suffer the consequences.
    The media have manufactured Zimmerman's bad reputation. To gun owners, he is a hero. Long before this incident, the media made gun owners look bad, so they will ignore your warning.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

  8. #308
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound View Post
    The media have manufactured Zimmerman's bad reputation. To gun owners, he is a hero. Long before this incident, the media made gun owners look bad, so they will ignore your warning.
    He is NOT a hero to any gun owner who understands rational decision making. It is quite evident to me. While blackdog is to stubborn to say it openly, but it is QUITE clear that Zimmerman made a bad decision. I am not the only one who thinks that. I have had this discussion plenty too. Zimmerman's "bad reputation" was not manufactured to me either. He had run ins on his record and an old restraining order. He is as much a scumbag criminal as Martin was. The fact is he is guilty of poor decision making. Anyone who has any hint of intelligence knows he shouldn't have gotten out of the car.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  9. #309
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound View Post
    The media have manufactured Zimmerman's bad reputation. To gun owners, he is a hero. Long before this incident, the media made gun owners look bad, so they will ignore your warning.
    He is not THIS gun owner's hero... Nor is he my villain...
    There is not enough evidence for me to make that decision yet.
    As a dreamer of dreams and a travellin' man, I have chalked up many a mile.
    Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks and I've learned much from both of their styles!

  10. #310
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    I haven't seen any evidence that either of them is a "scumbag criminal". I don't even see a pattern of bad judgment-- just two decent and law-abiding men having a very bad night that left one of them dead in the street.

    It happens.

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