View Poll Results: Do you agree with Florida Law on use of deadly force?

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Thread: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

  1. #21
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Zimmerman's lawyer also says that he will not use the law to defend his client if charges are filed.
    Link? I'm not into the case enough to know/search but that's interesting.

    I'd find that very strange unless Z threw the first punch (if M did, before Z committed a forcible felony - then that's end of case) or there was some kind of break in the action that somehow negated the battery. Following someone around (especially as a watch patrol) is not a forcible felony. Throwing a punch is.

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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I disagree with the highlighted in sub-section 12:



    Firearms should be allowed in all public schools.

    ****
    What was the Florida law before this? Does this law move in the direction of more freedom or more control?
    Jerry I disagree with you; but gave you a like for posting the section of the law and explanation you disagreed with.

  3. #23
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Link? I'm not into the case enough to know/search but that's interesting.

    I'd find that very strange unless Z threw the first punch (if M did, before Z committed a forcible felony - then that's end of case) or there was some kind of break in the action that somehow negated the battery. Following someone around (especially as a watch patrol) is not a forcible felony. Throwing a punch is.
    Mr Zimmerman’s lawyer says he does not intend to invoke the law if his client is arrested, while one of the law’s authors says it would not apply in this case, anyway, as Mr Zimmerman seems to have gone out of his way to confront Mr Martin.

    The killing of Trayvon Martin: Because he was black? | The Economist

    I don't know what happened, and neither does anyone else on this board, but considering the evidence, it is very unlikely that Zimmerman did not escalate the situation at all. Martin might have attacked Zimmerman, but this could have been out of fear caused by some guy following him.
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    I think I disagree with the SYG law if it allows a person to create a context where an altercation ensues and said situation leads to the death of another person. I don't necessarily think that Zimmerman is guilty of murder, but I think he is guilty of something. That something may not necessarily be a law currently on the books, but perhaps one that ought to be (since we are talking about opposing and advocating laws). That is, Zimmerman may be legally innocent, but he is probably not innocent in this matter.
    If Zimmerman followed Martin, he probably forfeited whatever protections syg laws provided him and could be charged with at least manslaughter. Even if Martin attacked him, Zimmerman was incredibly stupid in following him. SYG laws are good, because they give people options on how to defend themselves. If a person has good reason to fear for their own or someone else's safety, that should come before any legal concerns they may have. If Stand your ground laws make it easier for people to defend themselves, so be it. Our legal system is based around making the burden of proof high for conviction in order to prevent innocent people from being punished for crimes they did not commit. The law does not make it OK for people to go off playing cops and robbers. It just makes it easier for people to defend themselves.
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    One cannot be baited into committing battery. What's next? Battered wives are responsible for their husband's actions? The chick in the sexy cloths escalated the attack against her thereby nullifying her right to self defense?

    Forcible felony = *bang*
    No excuses.

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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    I agree with the law as I understand it, but I think it is being misapplied in the Trayvon Martin case. I don't see how any shooting, even if self-defense is verified by witnesses can't lead to an all-out investigation by the police force.
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    One cannot be baited into committing battery. What's next? Battered wives are responsible for their husband's actions? The chick in the sexy cloths escalated the attack against her thereby nullifying her right to self defense?

    Forcible felony = *bang*
    No excuses.
    No, but by following Martin he intentionally put himself in a dangerous situation. What he did was incredibly stupid and goes against everything that is taught about self-defense. Martin could have possibly attacked Zimmerman. This could have been Martin standing his ground against someone following him. We don't know exactly what happened. What we do know is that Zimmerman intentionally escalated the situation when he followed Martin.
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  8. #28
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Within the confines of the law?
    I think the ability of a person to defend oneself is a natural born right. If in the end it requires deadly force to save oneself from a 'bad guy', so be it.

    To hell with the law on this issue. Any law that does not allow self defense at all levels, is against freedom, is against liberty, and is against a persons right to life.

    And I say that because we all know many different liberal groups out there have constantly tried to remove this natural born right from the citizens of this country.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  9. #29
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    No, but by following Martin he intentionally put himself in a dangerous situation. What he did was incredibly stupid and goes against everything that is taught about self-defense. Martin could have possibly attacked Zimmerman. This could have been Martin standing his ground against someone following him. We don't know exactly what happened. What we do know is that Zimmerman intentionally escalated the situation when he followed Martin.
    Can you show me where, in the FL statutes, the law specifies that "putting yourself in a dangerous situation by following and approaching someone" nullifies SYG? As far as I know, doing so does not justify battery nor does it nullify ones right to self defense. Such a clause is absurdly subjective and subject to abuse.

    When someone follows you, approaches and asks a question, you're not allowed to hit them (let alone invoke SYG!). SYG does not include possible misdemeanors.

    "Hey, this guy is following me and then approached!!11!!" *bang*
    No. No SYG for Martin unless Z committed a forcible felony.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 03-31-12 at 03:01 PM.

  10. #30
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    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Personally I think the SYG law and others like it are chickensh**. IF the concealed carry citizen is considered competent enough to carry around his fellow citizens then he should be allowed to carry around politicians, judges, bars and schools. It seems a bit cowardly those who write these laws don't want concealed carry people around them if possible. It is like they are saying you can carry, just not around me.

    Anyway the SYG laws are a misnomer, there are laws that say when confronted a person must first attempt to flee and if trapped only then can use deadly force to stop violence. That pretty much precluded a 3rd armed party from stopping an assault on a fellow citizen. Most states that have more lenient deadly force laws never had flee first laws.

    I wouldn't mind CCW having a bit more training before issue. Most classes barely cover the laws and have precious little live fire training. Open carry is one thing but concealed just doesn't seem as Constitutionally permissible. Bit underhanded, but then again just my opinion.

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