I oppose the Second Amendment completely
There should be no rule of law
"God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
-C G Jung
#2 If Zimmer was attacked whether he was returning to his car or not, he had every right to defend himself under the law.
#3 If Zimmer was actually guilty of anything, he would have been arrested by now.
As far as Zimmer making a "stupid" decision, to be honest we don't have all the facts. We don't know what actually happened. You are stating things as "FACTS" when again you have no clue what actually happened. Neither do I, but I know the law. Comes with being an X LEO.
Last edited by Black Dog; 04-06-12 at 09:47 PM.
No Lives Matter
Let's take a DEEPER look at the case facts:
Treyvon and Zimmerman are close enough in size for there to be a legit scuffel.
Treyvon WAS EXACTLY where he belonged. He was NOT out of place...at 7:15PM.
Zimmerman's father is NOT involved.
Now. Let's Listen to Zimmerman's phone call in transcript form:
George Zimmerman Police Call
Something I will note:
"These assholes they always get away."
The big Note:
"Are you following him?"
"We don't need you to do that."
Does the dispatcher have legal authority? No. And I am by NO means saying they should have it, or they are all knowing. I AM going to question...as someone who VERY MUCH does NOT want to be represented poorly by someone with bad decision making...WHY did Zimmerman leave his vehicle? That is a violation of every ounce of self-defense knowledge in my book. You do NOT go from a safe location to an unsafe location. Not to mention...LEGALLY speaking I feel that Zimmerman made a poor decision that COULD be seen as a violation OF:
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
Because he LEFT his vehicle. He put himself into a dangerous situation like an idiot. Of course that would NOT be my first choice of laws to go by. But I REALLY question his motive for leaving the vehicle.
The part I REALLY would like for us to direct our attention at is:
Lawful Self-Defense - Weapons - Division of Licensing, FDACS
This documentation is issue with ALL licenses.
Does ANYONE feel that he made good decisions according to this part of the State issued warning about concealeced carry? I feel he made a poor decision at THIS point:Q. What if I see a crime being committed?
A. A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman. But, as stated earlier, deadly force is justified if you are trying to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. The use of deadly force must be absolutely necessary to prevent the crime. Also, if the criminal runs away, you cannot use deadly force to stop him, because you would no longer be "preventing" a crime. If use of deadly force is not necessary, or you use deadly force after the crime has stopped, you could be convicted of manslaughter.
Only you can provide the wisdom, restraint, and good judgment that the law demands of those who possess the ability to take another human life.
The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.
How would YOU react if you were where YOU belong (a friend's neighborhood) and someone followed you in a vehicle? And then got out of said vehicle and followed you more?
That is NOT up for debate. Florida law CLEARLY states that. I question if he was attacked. ESPECIALLY because of his poor decisions.#2 If Zimmer was attacked whether he was returning to his car or not, he had every right to defend himself under the law.
As a "Security proffessional" aka mall cop...do you ACTUALLY believe that EVERY bad guy gets arrested? If you are as pro-CCW and pro-gun law as you act...then you should understand the reverse that not everyone that is arrested is always guilty (hence our laws for those of us who excersise restraint when carrying) of a crime. Do you even understand how long the Florida court proccess is?3 If Zimmer was actually guilty of anything, he would have been arrested by now.
I ALSO feel that...while you clearly do not think it should make light...the background of BOTH parties is relevant in this instance. Zimmerman does NOT have a history of quality decision making, and given his decision to get out of a vehicle...I REALLY feel that is the truth.'
He was the only volunteer of an unregistered neighborhood watch. That is a VERY important thing to leave out. Or do I mean convienient? Not to mention pursuit of a criminal is NOT within the jursidiction of neighborhood watch. I think that is...well POLICE JURISDICTION. Oh...and did I mention that it is an important note in Citizen Watch/Neighborhood watch to observe from a safe location. How does leaving your vehicle sound?He was part of the citizen's watch.
"The right to swing my fist ends at another man's nose." Does it not even appear as a BLIP on your radar that, despite it being his right, that his BAD decision brings up a questionable motive? Not to MENTION that it IS a bad decision. To say that it is "not the best decision" makes me question the fact that you are a "security proffesional?" It was a TERRIBLE decision.He was well within his rights, even if not the best decision.
Would YOU pursue someone that "looked suspicious" when you are on the phone with police and the person is not directly commiting a forcible felony? I caution you in your answer. I will be all over you like white on rice with your reply. As will ANY jury or lawyer.
So he was in a GATED community huh? And he was out following a kid rather than allowing the police to do that? That doesn't ring bells? How would you, as a "security proffesional" react? How about as an "being an X LEO?"He was also in his own neighborhood and not the ghetto.
1) Just because you are an X LEO does not mean you know the law. I know plenty of cops who don't know the law, and I know plenty of cops who violate the law. Being a cop does NOT make you a proffesional lawyer. You have about as much knowledge with law as Adam(being any random person interested in the law) in this thread. There is plenty of evidence of Cops arresting legal carriers for no reason to prove that.It's OK, I enjoyed pointing out the fact you don't know anything about the law or subject.
2) What happens when 1 idiot makes stupid decisions and you don't make an example of his idiocy? Do you NOT understand the rammifications of armchair QBing Zimmerman? I am the FIRST to defend LEO and those who act out of self defense, but the ONE thing I am equally as quick to do is find the OBVIOUS HOLES in judgement and use those to EDUCATE our wannabe heros who think that just because they have a license, that they are a cop. Do you know what happens to people who do that? They end up in Zimmerman's shoes. Or worse.
Last edited by blackjack50; 04-06-12 at 10:49 PM.
The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.
You should read that back to yourself.
And yes I probably would. I would be well within my rights to do so.
The only thing ringing here is my head from your ill informed statements.
No Lives Matter
From the facts we know publicly, Zimmerman did absolutely nothing wrong at all. What he did wwas care about others in his neighborhood. It was reasonable to call 911 to Martin nosing around the backs of people's homes. When Martin ran upon seeing Zimmerman calling the police, it was reasonable for him to try to see where Martin ran off to so he could tell the police. That is not wrong action, it is concerned citizen action.
I understand many people belive that total apathy and indifference towards your neighbors is some sort of expectation and anything else is foolish, but I do not agree. I also understand many people believe that government/police are 100% of protection and that people must agreed we are 0%. I disagree with that too. Just because the Zimmerman-haters are apathetic and totally self centrix personalities and of cowardly natures does not mean everyone has to be like you.
Did Zimmerman approach Martin with his weapon out? Did Zimmerman attack Martin? Did Martin at Jack Zimmerman? From behind? No one really knows.
You make solid points with the rest of your post, but that statement is far from true.
As a dreamer of dreams and a travellin' man, I have chalked up many a mile.
Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks and I've learned much from both of their styles!