View Poll Results: Do you agree with Florida Law on use of deadly force?

Voters
67. You may not vote on this poll
  • Agree

    48 71.64%
  • Disagree

    16 23.88%
  • I oppose the Second Amendment completely

    2 2.99%
  • There should be no rule of law

    1 1.49%
Page 17 of 45 FirstFirst ... 7151617181927 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 170 of 446

Thread: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

  1. #161
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Golden City of the Risen Dead
    Last Seen
    10-05-12 @ 12:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    4,310

    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Still doesn't give you the right to pursue a suspect.
    Whoa, whoa, whoa...it's not "pursuing". And it wasn't following. And it certainly wasn't chasing. Or trailing, going after, shadowing or chaperoning.

    Know the rules, stonewall; you can call what Z did anything but what it was. Cuz that would make him look bad. And we don't want that.

  2. #162
    Sage
    blackjack50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 04:50 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    25,306

    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jryan View Post
    As a police officer, yes if the officer feels endangered (IE Sees a gun or sees him reaching for a weapon). A police officer would arrest if he just saw rape. I honestly don't think you are okay with civilians making law enforcement decisions Goshin. I think civilians should be able to detain (in non-violent acts, which rape is NOT violent unless the rapist takes it to another level).
    Rape is among the most violent and detestable acts that the distusting animal known as human has EVER conceived. It not only involves the violation of someone's body, but the mental violation of them. It takes rape victims somtimes YEARS to recover...and some NEVER do. I have friends who have been raped. I know women who STILL suffer from the effects of rape, and some who do NOT realize that they still do. It is as mentally violating as any brutal beating. It violates a sense of security, self confidence, and so much more. If you know someone who has been raped...then you might understand this. If not then I understand your lack of understanding.

    Even Age of Consent rape victims can still suffer from awful PTSD. Now if the partner is "willing" and they are perhaps 16 or 17 that is one thing, but CHILDREN don't understand sex. Rape is the 2nd most detestable crime I can imagine. Murder being the first.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  3. #163
    Sage
    blackjack50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 04:50 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    25,306

    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    Whoa, whoa, whoa...it's not "pursuing". And it wasn't following. And it certainly wasn't chasing. Or trailing, going after, shadowing or chaperoning.

    Know the rules, stonewall; you can call what Z did anything but what it was. Cuz that would make him look bad. And we don't want that.
    What? Perhaps I am missing the sarcasm notification here? I am ok with Zimmerman looking bad if he made stupid decisions and he is proven guilty in a court of law. I expect responsibility and nothing less from someone who carries into public.

    Like I said in the closing of my other statement. If you want to pursue a criminal...get a badge and do it the right way.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  4. #164
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Golden City of the Risen Dead
    Last Seen
    10-05-12 @ 12:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    4,310

    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    What? Perhaps I am missing the sarcasm notification here? I am ok with Zimmerman looking bad if he made stupid decisions and he is proven guilty in a court of law. I expect responsibility and nothing less from someone who carries into public.

    Like I said in the closing of my other statement. If you want to pursue a criminal...get a badge and do it the right way.
    You might have missed the little **** show a few pages back where no verb used to describe Z's actions were of acceptable quality for some members here. We never found a term they found agreeable; the closest might have been "watching", lol.

  5. #165
    Guru
    JohnWOlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Last Seen
    01-17-17 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    3,594

    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    In places such as North Dakota where there is a similar law, I can understand that. The ONE case I could find where that law came into play, the other man had a gun, they were fighting over property lines, and the man that killed the other went into a very lengthy trial before being acquitted.

    In Florida, this law has no place. It is pure common sense. The fact that this gets debated is insane to me. Just totally insane. Anything else you people debate about I can see both sides, see where you are coming from. This, I just can't fathom how a normal human being thinks that you should be able to walk around in a school with a gun strapped to your side, and if one kid looks scary to you, you can shoot him in the face.

    Even if the kid broke your nose, legs, etc with a bat what kind of man are you to puss out and use a gun? To me there is no politics to this issue, it is simply what everyone is feeling, and I feel it is a load of ****.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

  6. #166
    Sage
    blackjack50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 04:50 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    25,306

    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    In.

    In Florida, this law has no place. It is pure common sense. The fact that this gets debated is insane to me. Just totally insane. Anything else you people debate about I can see both sides, see where you are coming from. This, I just can't fathom how a normal human being thinks that you should be able to walk around in a school with a gun strapped to your side, and if one kid looks scary to you, you can shoot him in the face.
    I want to carry a gun on campus. That doesn't mean I wana shoot some kid in the face for looking at me funny. That is kind of a ridiculous statement that is ignorant of the facts man. Concealed Carry holders have demonstrated they are the most responsible citizens in the State of Florida. We have these statistics going back to 1987. Carrying on campus is for people 21 and up. Not kids. NOT kids. For ADULTS...21 and UP. Unless you consider people 21-25 kids...im which case you coddle them and make them children my treating them as such...but I do not. I want to carry for the fact that the area OFF campus that I have to go through is sketchy. I want to carry in case of a nut bag walks into my class. I want to carry...because I am a responsible citizen that the government is afraid of because I am armed and NOT a criminal...and I am educated.

    Even if the kid broke your nose, legs, etc with a bat what kind of man are you to puss out and use a gun?
    The kind who knows you can be killed by a baseball bat. Where exactly did you grow up that people didn't stab, stick, bludgeon, and kill each other with whatever they had? This is NOTHING to do with feeling btw. This is experienced martial arts TELLING you that in the right hands a STICK can kill as easy as a blade or a gun.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  7. #167
    Guru
    JohnWOlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Last Seen
    01-17-17 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    3,594

    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    I want to carry a gun on campus. That doesn't mean I wana shoot some kid in the face for looking at me funny. That is kind of a ridiculous statement that is ignorant of the facts man. Concealed Carry holders have demonstrated they are the most responsible citizens in the State of Florida. We have these statistics going back to 1987. Carrying on campus is for people 21 and up. Not kids. NOT kids. For ADULTS...21 and UP. Unless you consider people 21-25 kids...im which case you coddle them and make them children my treating them as such...but I do not. I want to carry for the fact that the area OFF campus that I have to go through is sketchy. I want to carry in case of a nut bag walks into my class. I want to carry...because I am a responsible citizen that the government is afraid of because I am armed and NOT a criminal...and I am educated.



    The kind who knows you can be killed by a baseball bat. Where exactly did you grow up that people didn't stab, stick, bludgeon, and kill each other with whatever they had? This is NOTHING to do with feeling btw. This is experienced martial arts TELLING you that in the right hands a STICK can kill as easy as a blade or a gun.
    So let me just see if I get you right, a 14 year old kid comes up to you while your at a school with a concealed weapon because I dunno...your awesome? The kid has a bat and instead of I dunno grabbing a chair or something and pushing him away or rushing him, you shoot him in the face because this kid -could- be a black belt.

    Well sir I raise you that you -could- be insane if that is the kind of stuff running through your head.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

  8. #168
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,301

    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by lunchbox View Post
    I still think Zimmerman ignored the 911 Dispatcher and went after the kid anyways.
    It wasn't a lawful order, get a clue.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  9. #169
    King Of The Dog Pound
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    34,516

    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Do you think that was the case with this gentlman? I certainly must question his decision making process as stringently as I can. I am a concealed holder and I do NOT want the actions of one idiot to come to define the rest of us. If I were involved in a shooting I would be ok with having the proctoscope. It would take a lot to get me to pull. I certainly wouldn't be following a young male of African descent (because I wouldn't know his age and I am not a racist) down the street because he looked suspicious. Would you? The Stand Your Ground Law no longer applies in this situation if he pursued Treyvon (and he said he did).

    I am actually listening to the audio as I write this. The dispatcher asks him if he is following him. He says yes. The Dispatcher says we don't need you to do that. At that point...Zimmerman is no longer defending himself. Treyvon clearly knew he was being watched. He "walked towards Zimmerman" with his "hands in his waistband." That is a universal threat sign. Given that Zimmerman didn't pull I must question why not? Distance? Was it obvious that Treyvon didn't have a gun? How many people who carry on routine would ignore that? I see that as a threat indicator and alarms go off in my head. But once Treyvon runs (and Zimmmerman states this on the audio)...and the dispatcher tells him not to pursue...why then did he pursue? Understand I am not trying to delve into the legality of the situation around the shooting itself. I am questioning the decision making process of Zimmerman as far as the 911 call of Zimmerman's goes.

    Strictly putting myself into the shoes of Zimmerman...I could NOT reasonably pursue a young male who appeared suspicous or even ran away. That violates SEVERAL general rules of safety and more important...ignores the purpose behind stand your ground laws. If you want to go chasing criminals...get a badge and do it right.
    You don't even understand how the Castle law and the stand your ground laws work, let alone when they no longer apply.

    Here let me refresh your memory since you forgot...

    As a Resident of the State of Florida for my ENTIRE life, a Gun Owner, A Concealed Weapon Permit Owner, and as a Citizen of the United States I 100% agree with the Florida law.

    I also live in Florida. I am a certified in the state of Florida as a Security officer and I have my CCW.

    The Castle law removes the "duty to retreat" if you are attacked or someone enters your home, car, place of work or business criminally. Like breaking in through a window. The Stand Your Ground law covers everything else.The stand your ground law just like the castle law does not specify any need to retreat at all from a place you can legally be, period.

    You can see the actual laws here:

    Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

    The entire trayvon thing going on...was CLEARLY a violation of Florida law. There is a duty to retreat when that is an option, and standing your ground is only allowed when you cannot retreat (as in into your vehicle, your home). What happened to Trayvon was a disgrace because the man pursued Trayvon. Not to mention Zimmerman should not be allowed to have a gun because of his criminal record.

    Anyway. The Florida law is GREAT.


    If Zimmerman was indeed attacked while returning to his car, he is not guilty at all. He had just as much right to be there as Treyvon, and if Treyvon attacked him was under no obligation to retreat under the law. It is still not illegal to follow someone on the sidewalk as far as the law goes. So even if Zimmer was following Treyvon, he should not have been attacked.

    As for his criminal record. Only 3 things can stop you from owning a gun in Florida. Being forcibly committed into a mental institution. Being convicted of a felony or crime of domestic violence even if a misdemeanor.

    PS Zimmer does not appear to have anything on his record that would disqualify him from owning a firearm.

    Have time to respond now?

    Are going to sit here and tell me it no longer applies? Go read the law and answer my fist post. I mite at that point take you seriously. You obviously for all your bragging don't know anything about the law, situation or how it applies.

    Here is the link to my post to you: http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1060365123
    Last edited by Black Dog; 04-06-12 at 07:19 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #170
    Guru
    Jryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Last Seen
    01-12-16 @ 09:07 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    2,987
    Blog Entries
    1

    re: Florida Law on use of deadly force [W:390]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Rape is among the most violent and detestable acts that the distusting animal known as human has EVER conceived. It not only involves the violation of someone's body, but the mental violation of them. It takes rape victims somtimes YEARS to recover...and some NEVER do. I have friends who have been raped. I know women who STILL suffer from the effects of rape, and some who do NOT realize that they still do. It is as mentally violating as any brutal beating. It violates a sense of security, self confidence, and so much more. If you know someone who has been raped...then you might understand this. If not then I understand your lack of understanding.

    Even Age of Consent rape victims can still suffer from awful PTSD. Now if the partner is "willing" and they are perhaps 16 or 17 that is one thing, but CHILDREN don't understand sex. Rape is the 2nd most detestable crime I can imagine. Murder being the first.
    As I have already apologized for my statements and retracted my statements on the subject, I will do so again. I'm sorry I said rape is not a violent crime.
    I'm coming to see that no matter what law we regulate, be it the stand your ground act, there is never an objective morally right answer to any morale question; in fact, since there are multiple objectively right answers to every moral question that leaves us with a lot of grey area and a lot of black area (not in the racial since).
    -Jryan

Page 17 of 45 FirstFirst ... 7151617181927 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •