View Poll Results: Should the government be able to regulate this market in advance as stated below?

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    3 12.50%
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Thread: Mandated Burial Plot

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    Daugaard signs law on cremation of indigents
    cremation. the other alternative
    I agree cremation is the way to go. I just dont know how it could be universally implemented.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  2. #62
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I agree cremation is the way to go. I just dont know how it could be universally implemented.
    who is going to complain
    if they come forward to do so, you say 'here is the body, now dispose of it at your expense'
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  3. #63
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    There is no issue. The powers are enumerated. It is clear to anyone that can read and comprehend english.



    I have noticed this in you.
    Again, if you think it is clear, and therefore no room for debate, I suggest you don't understand it as well as you think. I've already shown there is disagreement.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #64
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    who is going to complain
    if they come forward to do so, you say 'here is the body, now dispose of it at your expense'
    You'd be surprised... the family who didn't want to pay for the funeral WOULD turn around and sue the county if they thought they could, after the fact. I know cremations are less expensive.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  5. #65
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Cheaper still to bury them in my back yard.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #66
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Cheaper still to bury them in my back yard.
    I thought your back yard was already full.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  7. #67
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I thought your back yard was already full.
    I don't mind stacking.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #68
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, if you think it is clear, and therefore no room for debate, I suggest you don't understand it as well as you think. I've already shown there is disagreement.
    Yes, I know it is normal liberal mantra to suggest others do not 'get it' or 'understand'. It is a part of that whole making fun of and name calling which takes the place of actual content and personal thoughts.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  9. #69
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So talking ot my relatively apolitical wife about the health care law last night and the arguments made in court, she brought up an analogy that I actually thought was rather on point and one I wanted to expand on.

    People die. When people die, if there is no family or no one able to provide for their burial we do not simply leave the dead decaying body to lie out and about. Someone bears the cost to go forward with disposing of the body either thorugh burial or cremation. And when that's ont a family member its putting an unnecessary financial burden on portions of society. Everyone, in some fashion, will enter into this market place at some point. There is no an individual who at some point in their life will be involved in some fashion with this particular market. We don't know when an individual may enter this market, and the entrance to it could be sudden and without any forthought.

    As such, should the government be able to regulate this market in advance by mandating that every individual do one of the following two things or be levied a tax penalty?:

    1. Purchase Life Insurance, assuring that everyone who dies will have some money doled out that will cover after-death costs. To go along with this, regulation will be put on Life Insurance that it must cover ALL forms of death at least to a minimum amount, including suicide.

    2. Purchase a burial plot and coffin or pre-purchase cremation services.

    The answer to this is similar to asking: when a non-married relative passes, does their wealth go to anyone other than the state when no will/testament exists? should the same not be true for a poor person's death? if not, and the poor option should no longer exist, i.e., loners can't die without pre=paying for death, should having no will/testament result in remaining wealth of dead be equal distribution to the most closely related relatives instead of going to the government?

    Consistency is what i'm suggesting, and i'm sure a death insurance legislation would not support that.

    Are people going to be fined if they refuse to buy death insurance? Will the cost go to the closest blood family member(s) automatically for those who don't buy death insurance? How could such a thing be enforced/legislated? The funeral business depends on the cultural values of "saying goodbye" (i.e., values encourage, force people to take care of their dead) and if that's not enough, the business should adjust accordingly.

    This sort of law seems ridiculous. Such legislation would negate the definition of business to funeral homes and the death industry. business requires choice, not only a choice of services to choose from but also a choice to choose at all.

  10. #70
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    This is actually different. You are not mandated to pay into social security in a technical sense. Let me explain based on my understanding of the court case that challenged SS and the governments argument.

    Social Security Taxes does not actually directly go to social security. IE there is no actual legitimate trust fund where the money you pay for social security goes directly into said fund and is used to pay back out to you. In reality, "Social Security Taxes" are simply a form of income taxes that goes into the general treasurey. At the same time, "Social Security benefits" are offered to people by the government at a specific rate. These benefits are paid for by the general treasurey fund which allocates moneys to Social Security (and in cases where it allocates less than it should, because its using SS money elsewhere, it gives it essentilaly an IOU).

    So with Social Security, in reality, you're not paying for social security in a direct sense. You're paying the government a tax called "social security tax" that goes into the pot with all the other taxes. The government is providing a general service called Social Security to you and it pays for it from that general fund. However, THEORITCALLY SPEAKING either one of those parts...the SS tax or the SS benefits...could go away while the other one remain in place as they don't DIRECTLY connect to each other from a fiscal stand point (though from a legislative stand point that's a different story).

    That is why, when SS was argued, it was able to avoid the notion of the government forcing you to pay for social security. It isn't. It's forcing you to pay for a tax. And along with that tax, they are implimenting a new government benefit.

    In the case of health insurance, or "burial insurance", there are a few issues that make it different than social security. First and foremost, you're not paying the GOVERNMENT money...you're paying a private company money. So its not the government directly taxing you, but rather overtly taxing you by forcing you to purchase something. Second, the government isn't providing the benefit in this case but rather its a private industry.

    Now, what this does mean however is that...as far as case law goes...it would be constitutional in a general sense to do a single payer system. In that case, an individual is paying a "health care tax" that goes into the general fund rather than paying SPECIFICALLY for health care. Along with this, government provides health coverage to its citizens as a benefit, not directly tied to the "health care tax" but theoritically having the deficit in the budget it would cause be covered by the new tax.
    Great post bro. I actually learned something reading this. And good on YourStar for giving you a like after showing her the difference between SS and healthcare.
    Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger. ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. Thomas Jefferson

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