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Thread: Mandated Burial Plot

  1. #51
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    I never said the democrats were competent. If they were they probably could have gotten it done. It's just shows their incompetence that they couldn't with a freaking supermajority.
    Yep. Also part of it is that while Single Payer would be consistutional based on case law, that doesn't necessarily mean that 1) it wouldn't still be challenged in court (just means the government would have a better chance against it) and 2) doesn't mean it would be good to do (that's an argument for a different thread). I think the Dem's may've figured that the constitutional barriers to this law had a better chance to be defeated then the various legislative barriers to single payer

  2. #52
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yep. Also part of it is that while Single Payer would be consistutional based on case law, that doesn't necessarily mean that 1) it wouldn't still be challenged in court (just means the government would have a better chance against it) and 2) doesn't mean it would be good to do (that's an argument for a different thread). I think the Dem's may've figured that the constitutional barriers to this law had a better chance to be defeated then the various legislative barriers to single payer
    you attribute far too much prescience to the dem legislators
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  3. #53
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I think the Dem's may've figured that the constitutional barriers to this law had a better chance to be defeated then the various legislative barriers to single payer
    The "constitutional barriers" to this law weren't even on anyone's radar screen until after it had already been passed. They were widely seen as very radical views of the Constitution that had very little chance of even being heard, let alone accepted, by the Supreme Court.

    Sadly, I'm convinced that it didn't really matter WHAT the content of the Affordable Care Act was...Republicans were going to mount a PR assault on *any* workable health care bill, and failing that, a legal assault on the law based on whatever flimsy legal arguments they could cobble together (and egged on by conservative judges). If it wasn't the individual mandate, they'd find some other pretext to challenge it. And quite possibly succeed, regardless of the legal merits.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-29-12 at 03:10 PM.
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  4. #54
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by barbarian_style View Post
    I am speaking of death insurance not health insurance, nice spin but stay on topic.

    It already comes out of my taxes so I would be paying the same. If I am forced to buy something you say I should have for your benefit not mine as an individual responsibility is ridiculous.
    But that is the difference between the two, as I said in my first post. However, I did think we were speaking of health insurance.

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  5. #55
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    There's more to this than meets the eye. I worked for a burial vault service and buried hundreds of people. I owned a monument business and again circled the periphery of death.
    Burial could be simple. Rinse the body. Wrap it in linen or some cloth, dig a hole and drop it in and the corpus would be good fertilizer. That's way too simple. Dig a really big hole and install a concrete box to hold the corpus. Put a lid on the box and there will be no settling of the surface from decomposition. This is to make the cemetary look pretty and organized. Kills labor jobs. You could eleminate the concrete box and use a pine box and it will decompose, settle and require landscaping. You send the body to an undertaker and he gonna shoot it up with formaldehyde so it doesn't smell bad after the makeup artist gets it ready to display. Concrete box, coffin, formaldehyde and thousands of dollars so that the cemetary looks nice.
    I just want to be buried in my yard overlooking my pond and I'm gonna. This is what I have told my kids. Rinse me off in the pond (people crap themselves when they die, so the rinsing is necessary), roll me up in the huge white linen cloth I have in the closet for this purpose and drop me in the hole, cover me up, and have a party. I want to be good fertilizer, and expect to be, so occasionally throw some seeds down on the spot. If anything blooms, it will be a touch of me and perhaps merit a smile. I will have the hole dug before I pass and a small stone (3 feet) from the local creek to mark the spot. I just want you to know that this issue has a wide range of possibilities. If the County wants to dig a small hole next to me and throw somebody in without formaldehyde, it's ok by me. More fertilizer. Fertilizer and that's the key word here.

  6. #56
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Getting back to the OP. I don't know. I do know I am getting really sick of the government telling me how to live, let alone what to do after I die. I am to the point where I just want to be left alone to live and be happy and let others do the same as long as it is not hurting anyone else.

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  7. #57
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The question about burial insurance was the one posed by Justice Alito during Tuesday's questioning. The solicitor-general attempted to draw a distinction between health insurance and burial insurance...but my view is that they ARE legally the same, and the government CAN mandate that people purchase burial insurance if it desires (at least to the extent that it affects interstate commerce). Whether it SHOULD mandate burial insurance is a separate question for Congress to decide, but I see no constitutional problem with it.
    Exactly...it's definately the same argument but the costs carried by society is not near the costs of the non-insured.
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    They also found they needed a stronger federal government, which is what the articles of confederation failed, as it was too weak. And limited doesn't mean absent. How far and how limited is the issue.
    There is no issue. The powers are enumerated. It is clear to anyone that can read and comprehend english.

    Now, I know it is hard for some to discuss without name calling.
    I have noticed this in you.
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Unfortunately it also means that plenty of sensible amendments cannot be passed. There's no way that our government could continue to function with an 18th-century constitution that is so difficult to amend, if we actually tried to follow the original intent.

    No one is suggesting it should be easy to amend the Constitution. But by making it nearly impossible to amend, the framers guaranteed (whether intentionally or accidentally) the necessity of a "living document" approach to the Constitution rather than an originalist approach.




    Don't bother to couch your argument in progressive terms; it doesn't fool me. What you are asking is to turn the clock back to 1789 (with the exception of a few amendments since then). "Amend the Constitution" is simply not a viable solution for much of anything. Like I said, ours is the hardest constitution in the entire world to amend...not to mention the oldest. So unless you think that a bunch of dudes in wigs in the 18th century had all the political solutions for all time, something has to give...because an originalist approach combined with a nearly-impossible amendment process are simply not compatible with the modern world.
    Complete and utter liberal BS. The continued attempt to get out of having to follow the constitution because it is inconvenient.

    Suggesting that bible thumpers would love an amendment to ban gay marriage are not 'progressive terms', they are my terms. Progressives haven't given much more than lip service to providing equality to gay's in terms of marriage.
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  10. #60
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Hmmmm...

    IF..... we died multiple times through our time here, and those service costs were skyrocketing, that we don't know what the services cost will be going forward, along with the fact that many were getting the service without paying for it and that was driving up the costs for me, then yeah, I would think it would be a good idea for Congress to come in and get everyone to participate in the pool to help control the costs.

    BUT...since we only die once, and the costs are fairly well known, not too many can skip out and it is not putting a significant burden on me....then no, Congress should not get involved. Besides, I think the states have this well regulated as it is.

    This whole question is the Scalia broccoli argument, it is so weak.
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