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Thread: Mandated Burial Plot

  1. #121
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    You just made a good argument against tax credits. THANK YOU.
    There may be good policy arguments against tax credits (in most cases), but the Supreme Court has never ruled them unconstitutional despite them being around for over 50 years.
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  2. #122
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    There may be good policy arguments against tax credits (in most cases), but the Supreme Court has never ruled them unconstitutional despite them being around for over 50 years.

    Has there ever been a case regarding tax credits that they had been asked to review, if so please cite.

  3. #123
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If we were following an "originalist interpretation" of the Constitution we would need a lot of them. I'm actually in the process of writing my own proposed US Constitution just for fun...I'll post it on here and/or on my website when I'm finished with it. But in the mean time, here are a few that I would propose, if we were to seriously adopt an originalist interpretation of the Constitution:
    See this is the problem here. You keep saying "if we were following an "originalist interpretation" of the Constitution". It does not have to follow exactly. That would be impossible considering we have things now that they didn't even dream of back then. However, following as closely as possible? That is doable. And has been done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    None of the ones passed since 1920 have been particularly important, in that they fundamentally changed the nature of our government. They've just been trimming around the edges.
    What you consider important is subjective. They were all obviously important enough to get 2/3rd's majority of both houses/states. Which was what you contested right? That getting amendments was "impossible"? The fact that there have been amendments since your cutoff date seems to prove you wrong about the impossiblity of the Constitution being amended.
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  4. #124
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Yes. Because the world changes, circumstances change, and political systems must change too.
    Just because things change this does not mean that an amendment must be employed every single time. Particularly if it can be implemented in other ways. The amendment process was suppose to only be for things that actually mattered. Not "just because times change".

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The only reason things "don't need fixing" for the most part (in terms of lots of new constitutional amendments) is precisely BECAUSE we don't follow an originalist interpretation of the Constitution. We practically never have, in the entire history of our nation...certainly not since 1803, when we had the Louisiana Purchase and Marbury v Madison. So if an originalist approach has never been used in the United States, why are you so sure that it would work well NOW, over 200 years after the establishment of the Constitution and 92 years since the last major change?
    There are times to go the originalist route and times that we don't need to. When it comes to the federal government mandating that private citizens have to buy things then going the originalists route is best for the simple fact that any such mandate is an expansion of power. And the Constitution was and always will be about restraining the government, not the individual.

    The times that we don't have to go the originalist route (in case you're wondering) has to do with the Spirit of the Law. Originalists like to tout the Letter of the Law while ignoring the Spirit of the Law. The Spirit of the Law is just as important as the Letter of the Law.
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  5. #125
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    And if they've only saved $1,000 and they need a $10,000 operation then what? Just tell them "Oops - you messed up! Now you're gonna' die for your stupidity."? I'm actually good with that. As long as those people that wish to remain outside the modern heathcare system (or on an upfront cash only basis with it) are actually held to their decisions then I don't see a problem - let them make that choice.


    Of course, as a society we've decided not to go down that road and having been around before you could walk into any emergency room demanding treatment I understand why we decided on the route we did. If the younger generation thinks us Old Fogeys got it wrong (really, our parents more than us) then let them return to a more barbaric time when people died outside of ER's for lack of money or health insurance.
    Then make medical bills, non bankruptable, where a person has to pay for, over a period of time with a low inflation adjusted interest rate.
    There are more solutions than, have no insurance, file for bankruptcy and have insurance, not file for bankruptcy.

    Hell, we can't bankrupt out of student loans, but we can with medical services, it makes no sense.
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  6. #126
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Then make medical bills, non bankruptable, where a person has to pay for, over a period of time with a low inflation adjusted interest rate.
    There are more solutions than, have no insurance, file for bankruptcy and have insurance, not file for bankruptcy.

    Hell, we can't bankrupt out of student loans, but we can with medical services, it makes no sense.
    I would have no problem with them not allowing people to bankrupt out of medical bills. That would surely be a better solution than letting the federal government make people buy things from private companies.
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  7. #127
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I would have no problem with them not allowing people to bankrupt out of medical bills. That would surely be a better solution than letting the federal government make people buy things from private companies.
    To me at least, it certainly makes sense that you would pay someone, when they render health enhancing or life saving services.
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  8. #128
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    There may be good policy arguments against tax credits (in most cases), but the Supreme Court has never ruled them unconstitutional despite them being around for over 50 years.
    However, am I wrong in my understanding that the Administration has been adamant from the very beginning this is not a tax of any form and has even based this case around the notion that it is not a tax but rather a penalty for actions taken with regards to commerce?

  9. #129
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    However, am I wrong in my understanding that the Administration has been adamant from the very beginning this is not a tax of any form and has even based this case around the notion that it is not a tax but rather a penalty for actions taken with regards to commerce?
    Bold: Its actually a penalty for a non-action with regards to commerce. But yeah beyond that you're generally right. From the begining Obama & Co. has continually said that "this is not a tax".
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  10. #130
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    Re: Mandated Burial Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Then make medical bills, non bankruptable, where a person has to pay for, over a period of time with a low inflation adjusted interest rate.
    There are more solutions than, have no insurance, file for bankruptcy and have insurance, not file for bankruptcy.

    Hell, we can't bankrupt out of student loans, but we can with medical services, it makes no sense.
    If you're talking about federally backed student loans then there's an obvious difference between student loans and medical bills. If the government can't force you to buy insurance how can it force you to repay a private loan?


    Ed:
    In addition it's nonsense for many medical treatments, they cost tens of thousands or more. People have trouble buying a $150k home - and that includes their rent! What makes you think they can repay medical bills that are even half that big?


    Crap or get off the pot. Either we're going to deny treatment or we're going to force universal payment/participation (which can be this way or taxes) or we're going to go broke. You pick which one.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 04-07-12 at 06:06 AM.
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