View Poll Results: Obama or Bush?

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  • Obama

    32 68.09%
  • Bush

    15 31.91%
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Thread: Obama or Bush?

  1. #31
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    Re: Obama or Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't think it is possible to be worse. Bush started two needless wars, began the spend and tax cut mentality (a moronic position), convoluted rational for torture, and increased government powers while stripping civil liberties. And let's not forget taht our economic woes began under Bush. While no president controls the economy, you can't balme Obama wihtout a nod to Bush. Even no not rolling back all those polices wouldn't make one worse.
    While I would put Bush in my bottom 10 or maybe even bottom 5, I'm positive he is not the worst president in our history.

    I am actually conducting a personal ranking of presidents using my own subjective methods and reasoning. I'll be sure to publish it on this forum asap.

  2. #32
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    Re: Obama or Bush?

    I don't think it is fair to judge a president until after 10 years from the time he leaves office. But Obama, IMHO, is probably on the lower end of the scale for sure.

  3. #33
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    Re: Obama or Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    While I would put Bush in my bottom 10 or maybe even bottom 5, I'm positive he is not the worst president in our history.

    I am actually conducting a personal ranking of presidents using my own subjective methods and reasoning. I'll be sure to publish it on this forum asap.
    Maybe and maybe not. I can't speak for all history, but in my life time, I don't see how anyone could be worse. As for the ten thing you mention above, not sure I fully agree with that. There is a tendency to rewrite history to suit whoever is in power. It could become more a distortion than a fact.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #34
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    Re: Obama or Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't think it is possible to be worse. Bush started two needless wars, began the spend and tax cut mentality (a moronic position), convoluted rational for torture, and increased government powers while stripping civil liberties. And let's not forget taht our economic woes began under Bush. While no president controls the economy, you can't balme Obama wihtout a nod to Bush. Even no not rolling back all those polices wouldn't make one worse.
    Not possible? Bush and Obama haven't yet resorted to the mass murder of civilians, so I think they've got a loooong way to go before that's not possible. (I think that was a facetious remark, but just saying.)

    If one's going to blame Bush, by that logic one also has to blame the Democrats who had taken over Congress in 2007.
    Last edited by Black_Zawisza; 04-02-12 at 11:55 AM.

  5. #35
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    Re: Obama or Bush?

    One can never overstate ones opposition to Ron Paul.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  6. #36
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    Re: Obama or Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    Not possible? Bush and Obama haven't yet resorted to the mass murder of civilians, so I think they've got a loooong way to go before that's not possible. (I think that was a facetious remark, but just saying.)

    If one's going to blame Bush, by that logic one also has to blame the Democrats who had taken over Congress in 2007.
    I don't think that is even possible here, yet (you were correct).

    And not sure what you mean by blame. You may want to reread my remarks:

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo
    While no president controls the economy, you can't blame Obama without a nod to Bush. Even no not rolling back all those polices wouldn't make one worse.
    Now you add congress to president if that helps clarify.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #37
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    Re: Obama or Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Maybe and maybe not. I can't speak for all history, but in my life time, I don't see how anyone could be worse.
    Depending on how old you are, I would argue LBJ may give Bush a run for his money.

    As for the ten thing you mention above, not sure I fully agree with that. There is a tendency to rewrite history to suit whoever is in power. It could become more a distortion than a fact.
    It is impossible to gain a well-rounded objective assessment of presidential effectiveness immediately after leaving office or while still in office. There may be rare exceptions (say, a president betrays the country to our enemies without a reasonable doubt). Most historians agree that you need to wait a certain period after the president leaves office to gain an accurate assessment. Heck, many of a president's programs won't even take effect or show its effects until years after he's gone.

  8. #38
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    Re: Obama or Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    Depending on how old you are, I would argue LBJ may give Bush a run for his money.
    I remember LBJ, and while not a fan, I would not rate him worse than Bush.


    It is impossible to gain a well-rounded objective assessment of presidential effectiveness immediately after leaving office or while still in office. There may be rare exceptions (say, a president betrays the country to our enemies without a reasonable doubt). Most historians agree that you need to wait a certain period after the president leaves office to gain an accurate assessment. Heck, many of a president's programs won't even take effect or show its effects until years after he's gone.
    Perspective is good, and it is good to step back, but what we've seen, and Reagan is a prime example, is that too often history gets rewritten. There is a tendency to give them credit for things they did not really deserve credit for. Our memory gets clouded.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #39
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    Re: Obama or Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't think that is even possible here, yet (you were correct).

    And not sure what you mean by blame. You may want to reread my remarks:



    Now you add congress to president if that helps clarify.
    No government can control an economy, but it sure exerts a massive influence over it - and did, at the start of the Great Recession. Both parties are fully responsible for this mess.

  10. #40
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    Re: Obama or Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    One can never overstate ones opposition to Ron Paul.
    Ron Paul isn't so bad. He doesn't bow down to corporate interests or the military industrial complex like so many other presidents.

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