View Poll Results: Should names on the "no-fly" list be public?

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  • Yes, full public knowledge.

    3 15.00%
  • Not full access, but an individual should be able to know.

    7 35.00%
  • No, it's good 'as is', and the secrecy serves a valuable purpose.

    5 25.00%
  • Other

    5 25.00%
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Thread: Should names on the "no-fly" list be public?

  1. #11
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    Re: Should names on the "no-fly" list be public?

    No, it shouldn't be public. There was no due process to put these people on the no-fly list in the first place...they haven't been convicted of any crime, so it's unfair to smear their reputation by making the no-fly list public. I do think that people should be able to find out if they're on the no-fly list, and they should have the opportunity to appeal the decision to a judge. If the government can't implicate them in any crime (and if they're a US citizen or otherwise living in the US), then they should be removed.

    Secondly, because if some of the people on it knew they were on it, they would also know that they were under suspicion for something.
    They could find out anyway by going to the airport and trying to get on a plane. But in any case, the possibility of surprising a terrorist doesn't outweigh the denial of due process to everyone else on the no-fly list.
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    Re: Should names on the "no-fly" list be public?

    I picked other. First the names need to be routinely reviewed. Many names are on the list because they sound like...not good enough now that the panic and panty wetting is mostly over. The criteria for being put on the list is very broad, Cat Stephens was refused travel into the USofA because his Muslim name was similar to a suspected terrorist. It didn't stop there, hate/fear mongers connected Yusif Islam to certain Muslim Charities that supported Palestinian widows and orphans.

    Second there should be a way for a citizen of this country to check if they have been added. It seems the American Way, the ability to check if false information is being gathered about you.

  3. #13
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    Re: Should names on the "no-fly" list be public?

    For American citizens, I simply think that being denied a lawful activity, such as flying, should require one having committed a crime. If there is some rationale, like it being a privilege or some such nonsense, I don't buy it. As such, you shouldn't be on it until there is some trial which shows you to be guilty or some relevant something, and thereby you should already know about your being on the no fly list. Because there is such an affront to liberty with the way things currently are, I am left with requiring the following: For American citizens, if you are on it, you absolutely should know about it, by being automatically notified. Presumed innocent until proven guilty, the inconvenience and other harm from not being able get on a flight, unexpectedly, is entirely unconscionable.

    I honestly cannot believe that any American believes differently. Amazing. These are American principles.
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  4. #14
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    Re: Should names on the "no-fly" list be public?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No, it shouldn't be public. There was no due process to put these people on the no-fly list in the first place...they haven't been convicted of any crime, so it's unfair to smear their reputation by making the no-fly list public. I do think that people should be able to find out if they're on the no-fly list, and they should have the opportunity to appeal the decision to a judge. If the government can't implicate them in any crime (and if they're a US citizen or otherwise living in the US), then they should be removed.

    They could find out anyway by going to the airport and trying to get on a plane. But in any case, the possibility of surprising a terrorist doesn't outweigh the denial of due process to everyone else on the no-fly list.
    There is no "right to fly." The no-fly list is no different than a casino who bans card counters. I don't think they're entitled to due process before being denied boarding. No Shirt/No Shoes/No Service applies...my airplane/my rules.
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    Re: Should names on the "no-fly" list be public?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    There is no "right to fly." The no-fly list is no different than a casino who bans card counters. I don't think they're entitled to due process before being denied boarding. No Shirt/No Shoes/No Service applies...my airplane/my rules.
    Well, yes it is different, because the casino is a private enterprise which can decide for itself who it allows in the casino. If they don't want you there, you can try a different casino instead. The TSA is a government agency which can prevent you from boarding any flight anywhere in the country.
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    Re: Should names on the "no-fly" list be public?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Should names on the "no-fly" list be public?

    Or, if not public, should an individual be able to check at any time to see if they are on it?

    If 'no' to either question, what would be good reason to deny?
    I said, "no, it's good as is" for two reasons. First, it should not be public simply because the public itself would probably start attacking people on the list just like they do sex offenders. Second, individuals should not be able to check for their name because no-fly lists might be good for getting "wanted" people. Third, for individuals who are unjustly on the list, they are going to find out anyway if the list actually affects them when they try to fly, so when they do find out, they can challenge it.

  7. #17
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    Re: Should names on the "no-fly" list be public?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I said, "no, it's good as is" for two reasons. First, it should not be public simply because the public itself would probably start attacking people on the list just like they do sex offenders. Second, individuals should not be able to check for their name because no-fly lists might be good for getting "wanted" people. Third, for individuals who are unjustly on the list, they are going to find out anyway if the list actually affects them when they try to fly, so when they do find out, they can challenge it.
    ...and that's really the whole point behind the question. Yes, they can challenge it, but... they will never be told the outcome. Ever. The ONLY way they can find out if their challenge was successful or not is to try and fly again.

    To me, that is an unacceptable way to treat a fellow American citizen who has not been convicted... or even formally accused... of a crime.

  8. #18
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    Re: Should names on the "no-fly" list be public?

    Yusef Islam (Cat Stevens).

    Full public knowledge. How else will we know if there's unjust entries?
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


  9. #19
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    Re: Should names on the "no-fly" list be public?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    Full public knowledge. How else will we know if there's unjust entries?
    The person himself should be able to privately verify if he is on the list and appeal it...without having his name dragged through the mud by the federal government (i.e. full public knowledge) without any due process.
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  10. #20
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    Re: Should names on the "no-fly" list be public?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    For American citizens, I simply think that being denied a lawful activity, such as flying, should require one having committed a crime. If there is some rationale, like it being a privilege or some such nonsense, I don't buy it. As such, you shouldn't be on it until there is some trial which shows you to be guilty or some relevant something, and thereby you should already know about your being on the no fly list. Because there is such an affront to liberty with the way things currently are, I am left with requiring the following: For American citizens, if you are on it, you absolutely should know about it, by being automatically notified. Presumed innocent until proven guilty, the inconvenience and other harm from not being able get on a flight, unexpectedly, is entirely unconscionable.

    I honestly cannot believe that any American believes differently. Amazing. These are American principles.
    I kinda agree with you...

    It's that balance between security and freedom again.
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