View Poll Results: Punishment or solution?

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  • Punishment.

    5 18.52%
  • Solution.

    22 81.48%
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Thread: Punishment or solution?

  1. #81
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    Re: Punishment or solution?

    I wouldn't really see myself as having particularly great job satisfaction as an executioner. It's an unfortunate business, all around.

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    Re: Punishment or solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    Immediate execution? Really? What's wrong with a little bit of the ultra-violence before we extinguish the life?
    It's a waste of time, energy, and money. So far as I'm concerned at the beginning of a Felony trial you ask the defendant what his preference is for a last meal, and you have it ready the moment his one (and only) appeal is heard. He gets the meal then and four hours later he's dead. Nice, quick, easy, and efficient.


    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Nearly exactly as I felt and believed....when I was a child...even a child of 40 years. Now, I think I am an adult and I care not to be inhumane..in any way..... Think about this for 40 years !
    I'll be 38 in July earthworm. If it took you that long to become an adult, then I'm not sure why I would take your advice. I was mature enough to prefer the company and mentality of an adult by the time I was a teenager. I got to see inhumanity on a limited scale early enough in my life that I learned it is the true nature of humanity, not the exception.


    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Have you ever been in a maximum or even a heavy security prison? From you remarks about a spa it would seem not.
    Nope. I don't need to be. Everything I need to know can be seen on the news and read in the newspapers, magazines, and books. The fact that these animals are given any rights, privileges, or comforts after proving they cannot live within the boundaries that society has set makes it a spa in my mind. As I mentioned earlier, I'm all for locking these ****ers away 24/7/365. No books. No tv. No radio. NOTHING except time to think about what they did until they go insane and are then put down like the rabid dogs they are.

  3. #83
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    Re: Punishment or solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    I believe you would have a different outlook on prison if you spent any time there, it is anything but a spa (granted some federal white crime prisons are a bit soft but a majority do not fit this description). While they may have TV's, radios, small luxury items, these are used as a tool to encourage good behavior. If you strip everything away from prisoners what motivation do they have to behave? after all they are already in prison. It also works as a means to occupy them, an occupied prisoner is less likely to cause problems then a bored idol prisoner. Many will lash out and misbehave simply to entertain themselves because they have no other means to pass the time.
    Prison should not be a matter of "encouraging" people to behave. The guards with the tasers, billy clubs, and water cannons should be more than sufficient to do that. Then again, if these animals are properly locked away in their cells, good behavior doesn't become an issue, does it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    Prison is much more then simply being locked away and removed from society, you are also removed from your family, job, home, friends, ability to prosper or improve ones financial being and this can be a very difficult thing to cope with. Many of us are wired to want to achieve and better our situations. It is knowing you are helpless to do ANYTHING about anything that can be a real punishment. This also does not take into consideration the living in fear of your life day in and day out. Prison is a nasty place were prisoners constantly pray on one another. You live your live wondering if today is the day you are going to be stabbed, raped, or killed for no reason at all. It is VERY VERY stressful.
    These people CHOSE to undertake the action that landed them their. THEY are the ones who chose to separate themselves from family, friends, job, and society at large, not the other way around. You will not find me having the least bit of compassion or sympathy for people who have chosen to do these things. There should be no fear for their lives if they're kept in their cells 24/7.

    Oh, and one other thing. I do have a small amount of an idea. My youngest uncle is currently serving time in a medium security prison in New Jersey for third degree sexual assault. I no longer have any contact with him at all. He's tried to contact me a couple times (via letter) and I burned them without even opening them. He chose to separate himself from society, and I no longer want anything to do with him because of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    Locking away persons in solitary for long lenths of time have been proven to cause a high amount of mental health issues right up to full blown insanity. Humans are wired to be social animals and are not meant to be solidarity confined. Many herd animals such as sheep or cattle for example will suffer (less healthy, lack of weight, poor immune function, ect.) if left in solitude and some have been known to outright die. What purpose would it server to mentally mess prisoners up if we ever hope to release them?
    Where have I ever suggested that I wanted to release them. I'm all for two sentences in our Legal System.... Life without the possibility of Parole and Execution. Period. No third option. If/when they go nuts we put them down like the rabid dogs they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    If you think prison is so easy peasy and cushy why dont you take a couple gallons of water and a few sadwiches and lock yourself into a closet with no contact for 48 hours, it should be simple right. My bet is you wouldn't consider such a thing so imagine living largely that way for 20 years. And living in a closet would be easier in many ways over living in a prison. Imagine back to your life 20 years ago and imagine that everything you have done and experienced, times you have enjoyed, time spent with family all gone poof! Its no so easy...
    You might actually be surprised at how well I would likely come through such an ordeal. It's not all that much different than how I spent the majority of my childhood. I would generally have a book with me, and the room was about 8'x10', but that's pretty close to how I would spend most weekends in my youth.

  4. #84
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    Re: Punishment or solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Time and time again we hear about some politician/s passing new laws or or attempting to pass new laws that increase punishments of those convicted of some crime or other. It is obvious, to me at least, that this line of thinking is a failure. Isn't it time that we start trying to come up with solutions instead of just adding more punishments?

    Which do you prefer?
    We already have way too many stupid laws that we're convicting people of. Why should we increase punishments for those?
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  5. #85
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    Re: Punishment or solution?

    Punishment is not as important as implementing policies that attack causes of crime. Solutions focus on cause whereas punishment directly relates to symptoms. That is not to say that punishment has no place, but it should be secondary in focus.

    Imprisonment is a means of confining, of separating a dangerous person from potential victims. Punishment/imprisonment in and of itself is not a solution. It is ideally a tool to allow for rehabilitation. However, there are of exceptions and some people are too dangerous and cannot be rehabilitated.

    But, yes, I believe the primary goal of policy should be to deal with the causes and not the symptoms of societal ills.

  6. #86
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    Re: Punishment or solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    PUNISHMENT. The problem is that we no longer know what PUNISHMENT truly is in this society. Our prisons look more like spas than actual prisons. We fail to incarcerate a large percentage of the criminals, choosing instead to fine them or use some other form of non-punishment. We aren't even able to convict an acceptable rate of the criminals in our society. When we actually return to PUNISHMENT, things will turn around, but not until then.
    I think that when we can put drugs in a different category; away from violent crime, then our prison system will much less congested and we'll be able to pay more attention to how we either punish or rehabilitate the criminal element.

    And before you ask: drugs are no different than alcholism and people need to be treated as such.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Punishment or solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    I think that when we can put drugs in a different category; away from violent crime, then our prison system will much less congested and we'll be able to pay more attention to how we either punish or rehabilitate the criminal element.
    Yes, drugs should be in a category where possession doesn't even need a trial, just immediate execution.

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    And before you ask: drugs are no different than alcholism and people need to be treated as such.
    Exactly. Consumable alcohol should be just as illegal as drugs are.

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    Re: Punishment or solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    I think that, like the best health care, preventative medicine is the best practice: most kids that drift into crime live in areas where they have nothing to do to occupy their time in any productive manner: that's fiscal repsonsibility for you; spend a penny to save a dime never occurs to those "responsible" people. Education in this country is not a priority, for the very profound reason that - it's not a priority; like invading Iraq . . .

    . . .
    Unfortunately, the preventitive medicine in this case would be intact families who put their children higher on the list of priorities than some people put their dogs and cats, or getting picked up at the next bar they go to. There isn't a way to instill values in individuals, if they don't have the foundations for doing so. We have created the very culture that is producing the crime element, then we give it the seal of approval so that we don't have to acknowledge that we have screwed up. We collectively encourage single parenthood, demonize people who support "old-fashioned" values, and glorify dysfunction in movies, music, and on TV, then we can't figure out why things have changed, and we have an increasing number of societal members who can't function humanely.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: Punishment or solution?

    Yeah I'd like to see more in the way of finding solutions. Admittedly I don't have a full-proof alternative, but I feel like the jail system is often born of laziness, indifference, and cruelty. Too often the punishment is way out of proportion to the crime committed. When I heard of 11 year olds being sent to prison for life with no parole (SCOTUS will hear on this) i think that's inhumane gulag crap and not at all in line with our growing understanding of the human condition, the risk factors involved in crime, and the kid's lack of developed brain and impulse control. If they don't have the rights of adults, how can they in all fairness share the responsibilities?

    So many in jail never even get psych evaluation or any training to avoid future crime which is like, so much for the "correction/rehab" argument. They walk out with no money in their pockets and in some states even go in debt cause they have to pay for their own incarceration, and that isn't going to lead to more crime? The recidivism rate is ridiculously high if jails are supposedly doing their job. OP is right in my view that the motivation is fear-mongering politicians who prey on the public's collective ignorance that a mugger is right around the corner, when crime rate has been going down. Having said all that, i think the proportionately few who are genuinely dangerous should be segregated in some way from the few who are peace loving, so I'm not advocating the jails all be thrown open and letting serial killers walk the streets among us. I don't have all the answers but i agree that the current system by and large doesn't work.

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    Re: Punishment or solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolv67 View Post
    I don't have all the answers but i agree that the current system by and large doesn't work.
    You're right it doesn't work. It doesn't work because we no longer have a societal value that expects people to follow the law or face an even harsher reality than the legal system.... exile and banishment from mainstream society. How many people do most of us know who laugh and joke about their multitude of speeding tickets, their DUI, etc.... That sort of laisez faire attitude about crime leads to the acceptance of larger crimes under the "he's just a kid" or "he comes from a bad background" excuses. We do everything except actually punish people for their misdeeds in this society.

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