View Poll Results: Punishment or solution?

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  • Punishment.

    5 18.52%
  • Solution.

    22 81.48%
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Thread: Punishment or solution?

  1. #21
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    Re: Punishment or solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Restorative justice works. Compared with punitive systems, recidivism is lower, and upon released, criminals are more able to enter the workforce and become productive citizens. It's tried. It's true. And it works.

    Remember that whole "hate the sin, love the sinner" thing? Apply that to thieves, drug dealers, and gang members, and they can become law abiding citizens.
    To the bolded- I have serious doubts about that. Excons often get branded, and spend their entire lives after release just trying to survive, because they have a criminal record dogging them. I support full forgiveness upon completion of serving time, and if they are released early, then do away with parole and consider their debt paid in full. No criminal record hanging around their necks.

    As for the last part of your post (which I quoted), I agree fully.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  2. #22
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    Re: Punishment or solution?

    I've always been for prevention, and putting more money into education, instead of spending it on prisons (the Kitzhaber model). But, prevention stats are always in the future, and costly to prove at the time. They save money in the long run, and are the right thing to do. Politicians pass the federal laws (which result in sentencing) as a reaction, and to show the public that they are doing something.
    "The measure off intelligence is the ability to change." Albert Einstein

  3. #23
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    Re: Punishment or solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosie1 View Post
    I've always been for prevention, and putting more money into education, instead of spending it on prisons (the Kitzhaber model). But, prevention stats are always in the future, and costly to prove at the time. They save money in the long run, and are the right thing to do. Politicians pass the federal laws (which result in sentencing) as a reaction, and to show the public that they are doing something.
    The problem with the bolded, is that we already spend huge amounts on education and opportunities, but many people fail to use them as a means for improving their lives. We have been spending huge amounts on welfare programs for many years now, and what we seem to be getting for the money is more welfare obligations.
    Much of the problem is cultural. You can throw money at a societal problem, but until the problem is resolved within the individual and the community which is the source of the problem, nothing has been accomplished.
    You can't fix poor parenting and bad choices by tossing in money. These problems are so deep-seated that they basically can't be fixed by society, but only by the individual.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  4. #24
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    Re: Punishment or solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    38 views and several hours later and no one has an opinion on this? No votes? Is my question really that hard to answer?
    Man has been around (most have left the caves) for what 50,000 years ???
    And still there is no solution...(maybe far too many are still in the caves...)
    What we need is less revenge and more love..
    Not to worry, I have precious little love for a criminal.....and even less for those who wish to perpetuate this sorry solution.
    We need a better people.

  5. #25
    Educator Rosie1's Avatar
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    Re: Punishment or solution?

    No, they can't be fixed by society. However, being only about the individual and not working on social solutions, accomplishes nothing either. They may have bad parents at home, but there is more than just a chance that teacher may get through to the child.
    "The measure off intelligence is the ability to change." Albert Einstein

  6. #26
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    Re: Punishment or solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Time and time again we hear about some politician/s passing new laws or or attempting to pass new laws that increase punishments of those convicted of some crime or other. It is obvious, to me at least, that this line of thinking is a failure. Isn't it time that we start trying to come up with solutions instead of just adding more punishments?

    Which do you prefer?
    There is a point where incarceration stops being instructive and becomes destructive.

    There is an 85% recidivism rate for those who spend more than 5 years in custody (iirc). This doesn't have anything to do with the individuals offense but the loss of community ties and institutionalization.

    I'm personally of the opinion that prison should be reserved for those too dangerous to allow to run around with the women and children.

    Everybody else should get some kind of community-based punishment. Or nights in jail, days at work, that kind of thing.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  7. #27
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    Re: Punishment or solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Are you implying that the law makers have become more draconian in their legislative actions related to crime?
    Being "tough on crime" is a great political position. It gets votes. The only way to prove you're tough on crime is to be "tougher" than those in the past, so legislation tends to get tougher. On the opposite, any legislation that is LESS "tough on crime" gets you labeled as "soft on crime" by your opponents.

    Untold numbers of politicians during the height of the drug war rode to power promising to protect your xhildren from those evil drug dealers.

    Politics, not sound policy.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  8. #28
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    Re: Punishment or solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    To the bolded- I have serious doubts about that. Excons often get branded, and spend their entire lives after release just trying to survive, because they have a criminal record dogging them. I support full forgiveness upon completion of serving time, and if they are released early, then do away with parole and consider their debt paid in full. No criminal record hanging around their necks.

    As for the last part of your post (which I quoted), I agree fully.
    This is another key factor.

    How much recidivism results from those who WOULD become law abiding citizens but COULDNT because their record prevents them from doing so? (Getting a good job, for instance)
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  9. #29
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    Re: Punishment or solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Time and time again we hear about some politician/s passing new laws or or attempting to pass new laws that increase punishments of those convicted of some crime or other. It is obvious, to me at least, that this line of thinking is a failure. Isn't it time that we start trying to come up with solutions instead of just adding more punishments?

    Which do you prefer?
    This coming from a guy who once argued texting while driving should warrant a jail sentence.

  10. #30
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    Re: Punishment or solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    This is another key factor.

    How much recidivism results from those who WOULD become law abiding citizens but COULDNT because their record prevents them from doing so? (Getting a good job, for instance)
    Good question- I'm not sure if there are any reliable stats available which addresses this problem. I know it's popular concensus that prison should be solely for punishment, but so many of our prisoners lack basic living skills, that I would like to see more resources poured into rehabbing them. I'd also like to see more involvement from various religious entities, because alot of these folks need some type of purposeful existence. As much as some people loathe religion, it can be an excellent source of guidance for those who are aimless and feeling hopeless.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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