View Poll Results: Will Senate Democrats put out a Budget?

Voters
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  • Yes

    1 6.67%
  • No - They will adopt the Obama Budget and try to pass it

    2 13.33%
  • No - They will ignore their duty alltogether and hope the story goes away

    8 53.33%
  • No - they will allow multiple factions to put forth budget proposals and let them all fail

    4 26.67%
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Thread: Will Senate Democrats Put Out a Budget?

  1. #31
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    Re: Will Senate Democrats Put Out a Budget?

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    How can the plan be revenue neutral but include massive tax cuts for the rich and Corporations?
    because you are confusing nominal with effective tax rates. the Ryan plan also does away with the loopholes and credits used mostly by those same wealthy and corporations.

    So (using easy math), if you made 500,000 a year, and your nominal tax rate was 35%, but by utilizing a series of shelters you were able to lower the tax money you actually sent in to 100,000, then your effective tax rate is 20%. The Ryan plan is to simply drop your tax rate to 20%, while also removing all of the shelters you use to lower your tax bill. What You Pay stays the same, it's simply that now you aren't wasting resources trying to move everything into one shelter or another.



    mind you if we end up increasing the burden of the middle class relative to the upper income earners, i am also fine with that. we currently have the most lopsided, 'progressive' tax code in the industrialized world, after all. It just doesn't happen to be part of the current from the House of Representatives.

  2. #32
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    Re: Will Senate Democrats Put Out a Budget?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    mind you if we end up increasing the burden of the middle class relative to the upper income earners, i am also fine with that. we currently have the most lopsided, 'progressive' tax code in the industrialized world, after all. It just doesn't happen to be part of the current from the House of Representatives.
    We also have the biggest Rich Man/Poor Man gap in the industrialized world, so the tax disparity doesn't seem to be a problem.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Will Senate Democrats Put Out a Budget?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    We also have the biggest Rich Man/Poor Man gap in the industrialized world, so the tax disparity doesn't seem to be a problem.
    yes, but that is not because our poor are poorer, but because our rich are so much richer. That's a position I'm willing for us to be in. Even then, for their percentage of the national income, our top income earners pay the highest percentage of tax revenue out of the entire OECD.

  4. #34
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    Re: Will Senate Democrats Put Out a Budget?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yes, but that is not because our poor are poorer, but because our rich are so much richer. That's a position I'm willing for us to be in. Even then, for their percentage of the national income, our top income earners pay the highest percentage of tax revenue out of the entire OECD.
    Again, it doesn't seem taxes are much of an issue, then - unless you think European millionaires are somehow more stupid than American millionaires.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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  5. #35
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    Re: Will Senate Democrats Put Out a Budget?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    We also have the biggest Rich Man/Poor Man gap in the industrialized world, so the tax disparity doesn't seem to be a problem.
    That gap is a good thing. It means that as a young person just starting out, you can go as far as you want to work for.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
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  6. #36
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    Re: Will Senate Democrats Put Out a Budget?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    That gap is a good thing. It means that as a young person just starting out, you can go as far as you want to work for.
    The facts beg to differ. Social mobility in the United States shows that it is much more difficult to rise in income than in OECD countries, which is the specific group MoSurveyor was talking about.
    International Comparisons of Economic Mobility
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  7. #37
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    Re: Will Senate Democrats Put Out a Budget?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    The facts beg to differ. Social mobility in the United States shows that it is much more difficult to rise in income than in OECD countries, which is the specific group MoSurveyor was talking about.
    International Comparisons of Economic Mobility
    that is not an accurate depiction of those numbers. what they demonstrate is that wealthier parents have greater ability to ensure that their kids remain wealthier as well. rather than demonstrate (for example) the ability of an individual to earn more than his parents, it simply demonstrates (again) that our wealthy are much wealthier than other nations' wealthy.

    It is easier to rise from 35K a year to 75K a year in France than it is to rise from 45K a year to 450K a year in America. Shocking.

  8. #38
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    Re: Will Senate Democrats Put Out a Budget?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    that is not an accurate depiction of those numbers. what they demonstrate is that wealthier parents have greater ability to ensure that their kids remain wealthier as well. rather than demonstrate (for example) the ability of an individual to earn more than his parents, it simply demonstrates (again) that our wealthy are much wealthier than other nations' wealthy.
    To my knowledge, there isn't a study that deals directly with absolute mobility in the United States, so I settled for the next best, the intergenerational studies. And your statements are a complete mischaracterization of the study. The study implicitly states that a man in the United States is more likely to have the same income as his father than men in the mentioned Nordic countries. Furthermore, there is general consensus that social mobility is declining in the United States, even while the income gap continues to grow to levels not seen since the Gilded Age.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It is easier to rise from 35K a year to 75K a year in France than it is to rise from 45K a year to 450K a year in America. Shocking.
    Don't know how that's relevant to the study, but obviously yes.

    Moreover, I'd like to direct your attention to these links. They both have links inside them to support their claims as well.

    Harder for Americans to Rise From Lower Rungs

    The Economist on "Meritocracy in America"
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  9. #39
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    Re: Will Senate Democrats Put Out a Budget?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    That gap is a good thing. It means that as a young person just starting out, you can go as far as you want to work for.
    As has always been the case regardless of the disparity. Rockefeller did just as well in his day as Gates did yesterday.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    that is not an accurate depiction of those numbers. what they demonstrate is that wealthier parents have greater ability to ensure that their kids remain wealthier as well. rather than demonstrate (for example) the ability of an individual to earn more than his parents, it simply demonstrates (again) that our wealthy are much wealthier than other nations' wealthy.

    It is easier to rise from 35K a year to 75K a year in France than it is to rise from 45K a year to 450K a year in America. Shocking.
    So the "lopsided, 'progressive' tax code" you complained about has apparently had no ill effect on them at all. All you've said in the last two posts is that, if anything, they're thriving in it.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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