View Poll Results: Should women be allowed in combat roles in military?

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Thread: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

  1. #351
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    Re: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    And I will reply again read the info, that's what it is there for.

    If you can't do that, than I don't really care what your point is as it does not in any way refute (because you did not bother to read it) the information in any way, period.

    Have a good read.
    To put this another way, if you have a particular source, or series of sources, that actually address the question that I've asked you, I'd be happy to look at them. Why don't you tell me what those sources are?

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    Re: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    I'm not asking your sources. I'm asking you. If you would like to address me to a particular source of yours, I'd be happy to read it.
    OK but I am not going to debate this anymore as it has all been covered at this point. I will let the Israelis point to my view on why at this time I cannot and would not support this...


    The fact that military-age women weigh 33 pounds less than men on average makes the average disparity in what they can lift more than 44 pounds.

    The study also determined that men could be trained on marches of up to 55 miles, but that marches of more than 32 miles were too arduous for women.

    The study, carried out at the request of the General Staff, found that the amount of oxygen-carrying hemoglobin in women’s blood was more than 10 percent lower than in men’s blood, limiting their ability to undertake extended physical efforts.


    You mite want to read all of it here.... Israeli women won't see combat - Washington Times

    The study and the others all come to the same conclusion. Even if a female can pass, in a ground combat company the odds are they will be the weakest links. They are physically not built for it and never will be. Now in the future this may change either through robot soldiers or some other kind of sci fi thing. Well here again...

    Few serious armies use women in combat roles. Israel, which drafts most of its young women and uses them in all kinds of military work, has learned from experience to take them out of combat zones. Tests show that few women have the upper-body strength required for combat tasks. Keeping combat forces all male would not be discriminatory, as were earlier racial segregation schemes in the military, because men and women are different both physically and psychologically.” - Feb. 5, 1990, National Review.

    Unfortunately don't remember the link for that one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  3. #353
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    Re: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

    Now you're using the color red because bold-for-quotes wasn't enough, you think we're blind and not reading your posts.

    You don't want women in, period. In general you think we're inferior. On average: women are not equal to men physically. No one's blind to this generalization or offended by it - nature is what it is . . . However - for all these generalizations there are always exception. Every 'reason' you present: there are women who wouldn't bring that 'problem' with them. But you're still ignoring these women and brushing them off.

    You don't want to see this and accept it for what it is: we're not all cut with the same cutter. . . God chose to make some of us different in this way.

    If that makes men feel bad or emasculated: too bad That's your problem - not mine. See a shrink, but don't try to sweep me under the rug with the others thinking you can hammer me flat and no one will notice.
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  4. #354
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    Re: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    OK but I am not going to debate this anymore as it has all been covered at this point. I will let the Israelis point to my view on why at this time I cannot and would not support this...


    The fact that military-age women weigh 33 pounds less than men on average makes the average disparity in what they can lift more than 44 pounds.
    What is average is irrelevant to my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The study also determined that men could be trained on marches of up to 55 miles, but that marches of more than 32 miles were too arduous for women.
    All women, or most women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The study, carried out at the request of the General Staff, found that the amount of oxygen-carrying hemoglobin in women’s blood was more than 10 percent lower than in men’s blood, limiting their ability to undertake extended physical efforts.[/b]

    You mite want to read all of it here.... Israeli women won't see combat - Washington Times
    I did read that article. It doesn't support the argument that all women are not capable of operating in combat units. This will become clear shortly...


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The study and the others all come to the same conclusion. Even if a female can pass, in a ground combat company the odds are they will be the weakest links.
    Bull****.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    They are physically not built for it and never will be. Now in the future this may change either through robot soldiers or some other kind of sci fi thing. Well here again...
    Well, if robot soldiers get involved, we're all irrelevant. So that's not really important in this conversation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    “Few serious armies use women in combat roles. Israel, which drafts most of its young women and uses them in all kinds of military work, has learned from experience to take them out of combat zones. Tests show that few women have the upper-body strength required for combat tasks.
    If "few" women have that upper body strength, than that subset (i.e. "the few") is capable of the work. Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Keeping combat forces all male would not be discriminatory, as were earlier racial segregation schemes in the military, because men and women are different both physically and psychologically.[/b]” - Feb. 5, 1990, National Review.
    It would be discriminatory, if you're rejecting females who are capable of the work. Obviously people who are not capable of performing should not be involved. But based on what you've told me, some of them are capable of the work. So I'll ask you for the third time: why not let them fight?

  5. #355
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    Re: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Now you're using the color red because bold-for-quotes wasn't enough, you think we're blind and not reading your posts.
    It was to put emphasis on my points to him, not you or anyone else. Context is so important.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    You don't want women in, period. In general you think we're inferior. On average: women are not equal to men physically. No one's blind to this generalization or offended by it - nature is what it is . . . However - for all these generalizations there are always exception. Every 'reason' you present: there are women who wouldn't bring that 'problem' with them. But you're still ignoring these women and brushing them off.
    You don't know me or what I think. Unless you are claiming you have ESP you have no real clue. As for the rest, what a joke....

    In general you think we're inferior.

    Then you follow up with...

    women are not equal to men physically. No one's blind to this generalization or offended by it

    I would say you are obviously offended by the results and you are projecting that on me because I agree with them.

    As for the last part about not every woman I agree, but far to few could even come close to risk it. Especially in a combat situation. Not worth the risk, and obviously the military's and scientists of most civilized country's agree, so I am at least in good company.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    You don't want to see this and accept it for what it is: we're not all cut with the same cutter. . . God chose to make some of us different in this way.
    I am the one being practical and you are ranting with nothing to back it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    If that makes men feel bad or emasculated: too bad That's your problem - not mine. See a shrink, but don't try to sweep me under the rug with the others thinking you can hammer me flat and no one will notice.
    Now you go back to the ad hominem? I thought you were not offended? As soon as you do that, you lose. No one wants to debate someone ranting like a loon.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 03-23-12 at 02:22 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #356
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    Re: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    What is average is irrelevant to my point.
    Then as I said your point is still irrelevant as modern science disagrees. As well as those (the Israelis) who used women in combat and subsequently removed them. The Russians also removed them after WWII, why? If they could cut it so to speak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    All women, or most women?
    You read the article, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    I did read that article. It doesn't support the argument that all women are not capable of operating in combat units. This will become clear shortly...
    Please point out where I have said this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    Bull****.
    Good evidence there let me tell you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    Well, if robot soldiers get involved, we're all irrelevant. So that's not really important in this conversation.
    It was nothing more than an example, man would you PLEASE stop projecting what you WANT into my points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    If "few" women have that upper body strength, than that subset (i.e. "the few") is capable of the work. Correct?
    Absolutely. So few in fact that country's who had female soldiers in combat units removed them. Why again did they do this? The studies are pretty clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    It would be discriminatory, if you're rejecting females who are capable of the work. Obviously people who are not capable of performing should not be involved. But based on what you've told me, some of them are capable of the work. So I'll ask you for the third time: why not let them fight?
    Already covered it above.

    So far you have presented no good reason to change it as the British decided in 2010, based on the studies.

    Again it's not discrimination when they can't preform the necessary requirements. No reason or evidence to date exists to put a female into a ground combat unit, period. No scientific evidence to support it either, none.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Now you're using the color red because bold-for-quotes wasn't enough, you think we're blind and not reading your posts.

    You don't want women in, period. In general you think we're inferior. On average: women are not equal to men physically. No one's blind to this generalization or offended by it - nature is what it is...
    and you could have stopped there and been 100% correct. Want to guess what happens to unit morale and cohesion when a female E6 plops on her ass sobbin with snot running down her face because she can't perform a basic boot drag to get a wounded soldier to safety...in a real world 'exercise'? Will you join me in thanking GOD that that scenario doesn't happen in the middle of a firefight with actual lives on the line?

    The military isn't a social experiment. For all the bull**** about equality...grab a pack and a rifle and go lead the way. It's not a macho thing. It's not an anti-women thing. For people that serve and have served its a fact of life. Whether it is unable to repair equipment because it's too heavy or to hack in the field...it's reality. Until they can...thy cant. And shouldn't.

  8. #358
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    Re: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I gave up on you as your question is based on nothing, and this has nothing to do with your fantasy land question, capisce?

    You can call it "group think" all day, but it does not change the facts of the study, period.
    Perhaps you don't understand what group think means. However, everything is based on some kind of assumption. And how true and fix those assumptions are speaks to the strength of the assumption. Strength is far less important over all today than it was long ago.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #359
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    Re: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Perhaps you don't understand what group think means. However, everything is based on some kind of assumption. And how true and fix those assumptions are speaks to the strength of the assumption. Strength is far less important over all today than it was long ago.
    I agree it's changed for 90% of the positions in the military. I will also say that Armor, infantry and artillery has not changed at all physically in the last 60+ years. Tank and artially shells are still heavy. Infantry still needs to move fast on foot over long distances carrying a load and still be able to fight. Those things have not changed since WWI.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #360
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    Re: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I agree it's changed for 90% of the positions in the military. I will also say that Armor, infantry and artillery has not changed at all physically in the last 60+ years. Tank and artially shells are still heavy. Infantry still needs to move fast on foot over long distances carrying a load and still be able to fight. Those things have not changed since WWI.
    Of course they've changed. All things change. But if we changed our mindset, they might change even more.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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