View Poll Results: Should women be allowed in combat roles in military?

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Thread: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

  1. #321
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    Re: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    A story from 2007 from the telegraph?

    So no, not really.
    So, you can't be brought to the point? It's a common tactic, but a cheap one. Again, it depends on what study you use. You confuse the link with the source of the study, which is also a common mistake. But, as it was never the point, I ask again, what does it take to bring you to actually answering the point?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #322
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    Re: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    But, you too seek to skip the point. Any task has more than one way to accomplish it, and if need be, a focus on working smarter instead harder, or stronger, might be just as effective. How can I get you too the point?
    I wanted to address this separately.

    OK please tell me how humping a 60lb ruck and full gear for over 25 miles can be attained by "working differently?" Or loading many 50lb shells in under 5 seconds into a cannon while in a tank? Or how about even heavier ammunition into an 8" artillery piece?

    It can't. The problem is sometimes, it just takes a strong male.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  3. #323
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    Re: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    So, you can't be brought to the point? It's a common tactic, but a cheap one. Again, it depends on what study you use. You confuse the link with the source of the study, which is also a common mistake. But, as it was never the point, I ask again, what does it take to bring you to actually answering the point?
    The study is as outdated and unreliable as the source. Mine is from 2011 and includes recent study's if you bothered to look. So for a third time you fail.

    Funny how I can find nothing else on this "research" at Edinburgh University. It does however go on to say in another story on the research....

    Women are better at working in teams, deal-making and peace-brokering, while men are more likely to excel at bamboozling and cheating, according to a new study. - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ear...-cheating.html

    LMAO!
    Last edited by Black Dog; 03-22-12 at 12:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #324
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    Re: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The study is as outdated and unreliable as the source. Mine is from 2011 and includes recent study's if you bothered to look. So for a third time you fail.
    You should know that reading you link, they borrowed from other studies, including this one. But again, you are skipping the point. I ask again, what will it take to get you to actually address the point.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #325
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    Re: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I wanted to address this separately.

    OK please tell me how humping a 60lb ruck and full gear for over 25 miles can be attained by "working differently?" Or loading many 50lb shells in under 5 seconds into a cannon while in a tank? Or how about even heavier ammunition into an 8" artillery piece?

    It can't. The problem is sometimes, it just takes a strong male.
    I've seen women do that, but as have I seen small men do it. And I suspect most are strong enough to this, as you don't need to be Samson to do it. But they could problem solve, as we all have to in any particular situation. But the test for this would be to carry that weight for that long, and not much of what is on a PT test.

    And would bet if given the opportunity, I could find a way to both easier. I've spent a life time doing such things. I even suspect you could as well, if you wanted to and we allowed to.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #326
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    Re: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I've seen women do that, but as have I seen small men do it.
    I doubt it. Either way it's anecdotal and so far your anecdotal evidence has been less than trustworthy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And I suspect most are strong enough to this, as you don't need to be Samson to do it.
    And again as the previous study's from Israel and England show the majority can't, and you are again wrong. Keep ignoring the evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    But they could problem solve, as we all have to in any particular situation. But the test for this would be to carry that weight for that long, and not much of what is on a PT test.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And would bet if given the opportunity, I could find a way to both easier. I've spent a life time doing such things. I even suspect you could as well, if you wanted to and we allowed to.
    I give up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #327
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    Re: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You should know that reading you link, they borrowed from other studies, including this one. But again, you are skipping the point. I ask again, what will it take to get you to actually address the point.
    I did address it.

    #1 Your post about "women being better" was wrong.
    #2 Your article is outdated and flies in the face of more recent study's and articles invalidating your "depends who you ask" reply.

    That was my point. I don't care what silly abstract point about "working smarter" etc you were trying to make as that was debunked by me pages ago. You just don't want to accept real world situations and would rather use examples from fantasy land as proof of something.

    End of story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #328
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    Re: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

    Dog-
    I feel you are the one generalizing and ignoring the true facts. You seem intent on having any female wishing to serve in combat arms qualify for the Deltas or something. The strength requirement isn't that high, you don't carry 70 lbs of body armor and gear at arms length and climb stairs, you strap the crap and trudge. 'Female hygiene' in the field differs little from male hygiene even with the monthly thrown in. The average Valley Girl won't like going two weeks without a shower but these days neither does the average Valley Boy, not that the two weeks without a shower is very routine in the infantry these days.

    Again not every woman will want to be a grunt, but those who do deserve a fair shot at the same standard a guy grunt meets. I firmly believe females with the heart and desire WILL hack it and the guys who don't have the drive will recycle to whatever REMF MOS they can manage.

    Again brute strength as you keep harping on isn't required to be a grunt, I was 122lbs when I graduated Infantry School at Ft. Puke and Tigerland. I had failed my first PT test in BASIC. It isn't brute strength, it is heart and desire because many of the big guys broke down when pushed past their limits, they had never been in such a situation in the civilian world. Never felt unable to hack it. And there will be that time when the sh** gets to be too much. I'd rather have 4 'weaker' guys or gals with me than 2 big guys who never felt the doom and had to push through it like I did when the DI got in my face as I laid there on the PT course and declared I would NEVER make it through BASIC.

    Funny thing I recall at Ft. Puke, we lost more big guys to bad ankles and backs after we started the long road marches compared to us littler guys. Seems lugging all that upper body strength around was too much for their ankles and backs. Grunts do a lot more than bench press each other, we hump ALICE or MOLLIE...

  9. #329
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    Re: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Dog-
    I feel you are the one generalizing and ignoring the true facts. You seem intent on having any female wishing to serve in combat arms qualify for the Deltas or something. The strength requirement isn't that high, you don't carry 70 lbs of body armor and gear at arms length and climb stairs, you strap the crap and trudge. 'Female hygiene' in the field differs little from male hygiene even with the monthly thrown in. The average Valley Girl won't like going two weeks without a shower but these days neither does the average Valley Boy, not that the two weeks without a shower is very routine in the infantry these days.

    Again not every woman will want to be a grunt, but those who do deserve a fair shot at the same standard a guy grunt meets. I firmly believe females with the heart and desire WILL hack it and the guys who don't have the drive will recycle to whatever REMF MOS they can manage.

    Again brute strength as you keep harping on isn't required to be a grunt, I was 122lbs when I graduated Infantry School at Ft. Puke and Tigerland. I had failed my first PT test in BASIC. It isn't brute strength, it is heart and desire because many of the big guys broke down when pushed past their limits, they had never been in such a situation in the civilian world. Never felt unable to hack it. And there will be that time when the sh** gets to be too much. I'd rather have 4 'weaker' guys or gals with me than 2 big guys who never felt the doom and had to push through it like I did when the DI got in my face as I laid there on the PT course and declared I would NEVER make it through BASIC.

    Funny thing I recall at Ft. Puke, we lost more big guys to bad ankles and backs after we started the long road marches compared to us littler guys. Seems lugging all that upper body strength around was too much for their ankles and backs. Grunts do a lot more than bench press each other, we hump ALICE or MOLLIE...
    Your anecdotal evidence flies in the face of fact...

    BRITISH STUDY FINDS FEMALE SOLDIERS “TOO WEAK” FOR LAND COMBAT
    1/14/2002 12:58:35 PM

    ...Negative findings in the Combat Effectiveness Gender Study are even more significant in view of the fact that test exercises reportedly had been so diluted and watered down that they amounted to little more than "aggressive camping." (Electronic Telegraph, Mar. 26, 2001) According to Brig. Seymour Monro, the Army’s Director of Infantry, tasks that women soldiers were not physically capable of performing had been made easier or dropped from the trials...
    - Center for Military Readiness | International Policies

    It was reviewed and tried again in 2010...

    BRITISH CONCLUDE STUDY OF WOMEN IN COMBAT: NO CHANGES
    Tuesday, November 30, 2010

    ...The Ministry of Defence has completed a review into the policy that excludes female members of the Armed Forces from carrying out ground close combat roles, and decided that it should remain unchanged...
    - CENTEX UNFILTERED NEWS: BRITISH CONCLUDE STUDY OF WOMEN IN COMBAT: NO CHANGES

    Few serious armies use women in combat roles. Israel, which drafts most of its young women and uses them in all kinds of military work, has learned from experience to take them out of combat zones. Tests show that few women have the upper-body strength required for combat tasks. Keeping combat forces all male would not be discriminatory, as were earlier racial segregation schemes in the military, because men and women are different both physically and psychologically,” - Feb. 5, 1990, National Review.

    Israeli women won’t see combat
    October 20, 2003

    "JERUSALEM -- Young women who are drafted into the Israeli military will be barred from most combat duties because of a medical study that has determined they are, after all, the weaker sex..."
    - Israeli women won't see combat - Washington Times

    Any questions? Or do I have to post this again?

    So far no one has come up with anything at all that is credible that refutes the findings, period.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 03-22-12 at 01:04 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #330
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    Re: Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I did address it.

    #1 Your post about "women being better" was wrong.
    #2 Your article is outdated and flies in the face of more recent study's and articles invalidating your "depends who you ask" reply.

    That was my point. I don't care what silly abstract point about "working smarter" etc you were trying to make as that was debunked by me pages ago. You just don't want to accept real world situations and would rather use examples from fantasy land as proof of something.

    End of story.
    Yes, I missed one post, but answered it when I saw it. As for this one:

    1) no, Not really. However, it didn't really matter. I'm merely trying to get you and Jerry (actually more Jerry than you) to actually consider possibilities.

    2) 2007 isn't decades ago, and your study actually looked at it and older ones to reach it's conslusion (it was a study of studies).

    And no, it has not be debunked. You merely accept physical strength as the only or major critiera. Others don't.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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