• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should women be allowed to serve in combat roles in the military?

Should women be allowed in combat roles in military?

  • Yes

    Votes: 45 68.2%
  • No

    Votes: 14 21.2%
  • IDK/other

    Votes: 7 10.6%

  • Total voters
    66
actually you were quoting me, there, MMC claimed he was a "grunt", which surprised me since his descriptions of combat thus far indicate someone with approximately zero practical experience either in wartime or in training of what "combat" looks like. It does sound like what people who play first-person-shooters and watch sci-fi channel shows where the obligatory "female security character" can flip 200+ lb bad guys around because she's such a bada-- think combat is like.



indeed - even more so.

most females can lift 200+ pounds through a firemans carry,though most people fail horribly at it.the firemans carry is designed to use abdominal back shoulder and chest muscles all together to lift someone,even i can carry a 500 hundred pound guy with a firemans carry.

the big problem is normal gear carry,gear isnt distrubuted through a perfectly balanced system,most women cant handle a combat load,mostly because they never have had to.just like someone who doesnt get a job and lives on welfare,if you dont have to meet a standard why do it.women go through the same thing,in the army the female standard is nearly to walk in the door and anounce im here to pass,those standards cannot train a female to pass combat.90% of females arent going to meet a combat standard they dont have to,so putting females through combat will require eliminating a double standard and enacting a pt test similiar to the armies new one that focuses on combat stress and load rather than whos fit enough to run.also such a test would fail if females got a double standard like they have previously in the army.
 
So what? Has nothing at all to do with my comments or the evidence. In the end they also quickly removed them from combat duty as soon as they could as did the Israelis.

They removed them from combat duty, after the war ended. Not because they weren't technically and tactically proficient.

Some of the top scoring fighter pilots and snipers were women, not to mention one of the toughest squadrons in the Soviet air force was 46th Night Bomber Regiment, AKA "The Night Witches"; a handle given to them by the Germans, so obviously they were kicking some ass.
 
They removed them from combat duty, after the war ended. Not because they weren't technically and tactically proficient.

Then why did they remove them? They have not been put back in to this day. The Israelis went as far to call it a mistake to allow women in ground combat rolls? Why Apdst? If you had actually looked at what we were discussing you would know this.

Some of the top scoring fighter pilots and snipers were women, not to mention one of the toughest squadrons in the Soviet air force was 46th Night Bomber Regiment, AKA "The Night Witches"; a handle given to them by the Germans, so obviously they were kicking some ass.

Again this has nothing to do with my post or even my opinion. I have no issue with females serving in combat zones, as pilots or on ships. You mite want to catch up on what we are actually talking about instead of knee jerking on a completely irrelevant subject.
 
Last edited:
that is utter crap, and the best example I can think of to demonstrate otherwise is the night drops of the air-borne units into Normandy. Dropped miles away from their organic units and further miles away from their assigned objectives with no obvious chain of command in site, in pitch darkness, surrounded by superior organized forces, if ever there was a time and a place when The Rise Of Ever Man For Himself would have led everyone to become a "Call of Duty" character, that was it.

INSTEAD they responded to their training, formed ad-hoc "little groups of paratroopers", reestablished all the command they could, with Corporals and Sergeants taking charge, and went out to create utter havoc. They performed far above expectations and managed to keep their casualties far below pre-drop estimations because they were disciplined soldiers who did not break apart in the face of chaos.

because they were soldiers.

historically, when armies have broken down into "every man for themselves" is usually about 30 seconds before they get massacred.



yes. and I have worked with and know Rangers, Recon, SEALs, and Special Forces. not because I'm some kind of bad-ass (I decided right after SOI that my level of motivation had limits), but because I have had friends who are, and been at the right place and time to work with others. They train as a team and they do it obsessively, because hard-won experience has demonstrated to them again and again that your Individual Warrior Duking It Out Rambo Style image is utter crap.



As Blackdog points out, the Israelis and the Russians both realized that it was a problem and pulled them out. As I have pointed out to you, both only put them in in times of extreme duress when there was nobody else to throw in the line.



what a fascinating claim. perhaps you can provide some details, because you sound like a kid who plays video games.



yeah. Boadicea, for example, led a horde of warriors against Roman Soldiers. how did she do, again?


oh yeah. the Romans were outnumbered more than ten to one, and yet they utterly massacred all those "warriors". Tacitus records 400 Roman fatalities measured against nearly 80,000 Britons.

Then you kow what Sua Sponte is all about!

Normandy.....they were not having to deal with Guerilla Units with the Drop. Nor did they have to face any elite warriors out hunting for them. (meaning our guys). Still takes a warrior mentality within the soldier. Which with Normandy we had whole units sitting out and getting picked up by officers along the way. Just to get them back into the fight.

The Israelis went with Women being in a niche with technology. Specialized! Just like the Koreans did.

As for a kid playing video games bro, you can save that shiznit from whatever little part of suburbia America you come from......I was shot 4 times before I ever joined Uncle Sams gang, That would be The Gang Module. No vests, no armor. anything goes total chaos, guerilla warfare in what the US military is just learning about.(That would be for block by block, building by building, one against the many in urban warfare.) Let me clue you in. I was shot the first time when I was 9. I was part of one of the most lethal gang organizations in the Country. Straight out of Chicago. Where as all those East Coast and West Coast wanna-bes must drop their flags running round here.
Amazing that sheep think that the only warring going on with the US is by the US Military. Good thing the media keeps half of it under wraps. Wouldn't want to worry Urban populations to a state a panic.

Still havent figured out how whole squads can be taken 0ut by one man yet? All soldiers trained to do what they do. How come they fail.....to this reality? Including Elite Soldiers. yeah I know you didn't think about it when you were all up into those feelings. Which just goes to show as you deflected off to the soldier argument. Is an Assassin a soldier or a Warrior? Why do women make the best assassin?

All this useless arguing about women being in combat. Can a woman fight? Are fighter pilots ground troops? What do they become after they are grounded behind enemy lines? Or even on the front lines. Thats right an enemy combatant on the ground. I have seen men who could not carry another man. Without their equipment on. Can man handle the greater amount of pain than a woman can? That would be pain of the inner nature. When you get done having a kid then you can explain it to me.

Boudica.....I noticed you didn't use the germanic tribes with your analogy to the Romans. Nor did you bring up Hannibal and the Carthaginians. Or the Parthians. Ever here of Tourburg. (sp) Notice all those Romans outnumbering the enemy by the thousands. Boudica didn't use guerialla warfare. Hannibal did! As well as specialized warriors.



In War.....it's common to let the pawns go first!
 
Last edited:
What part of "the Israelis pulled women out of combat and said it was a mistake" are you not understanding? The Russians also followed suit. Then the best laugh is you want to use North Korea as an example? The same country that is starving it's own people?



You were "warring?" Is that even a word? And what the hell does a 6 year old picking up a gun have to do with anything? That is just insane disconnected rambling.



"A shieldmaiden was a woman who had chosen to fight as a warrior in Scandinavian folklore and mythology." - Shieldmaiden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia :lol: :lol:



You mean Joan of Arc? Who carried a banner into battle on horseback rather than a sword because she did not want to hurt anyone? They were inspired by her because they thought she was a saint. Not because she was a warrior or soldier.

You are going to have to do way better than that.

First off it's the South Koreans, or did you forget that on purpose. Both Israelis and S. Korea went to a niche with specialized training. Meaning comes along with technology.

Thats right I was warring. I take it you have been out in the sticks sometime.....right? Inane rambling that was a fact. Look if you don't understand something, don't be afraid to ask.

No I didn't mean Joan of Arc.....I meant Fu Hao-Queen Consort/Warrior to King Wu Ding. Shang Dynasty! His #1 General who was ruthless.

Wu Zetian would become a Chinese Emperor.

Moreover Wing Chun a hard form style of Kung Fu was created by a Woman. That would be the style that IPMAN and Lee learned. In fighting, up close and personal.
 
First off it's the South Koreans, or did you forget that on purpose. Both Israelis and S. Korea went to a niche with specialized training. Meaning comes along with technology.

Actually no they diffident. Israel removed females from ground combat units and you can keep ignoring that. On top of that they said it was a mistake to ever do it. You can keep ignoring that as well. South Korea is adding women for a completely different reason...

The main mission of the South's 650,000-strong armed forces is to deter any attack from North Korea's 1.2 million-strong military, but they also serve in United Nations peacekeeping missions.

Thats right I was warring. I take it you have been out in the sticks sometime.....right? Inane rambling that was a fact. Look if you don't understand something, don't be afraid to ask.

I grew up on the South Side of Chicago, 704 East 92nd place, went to Burnside. I know you are just some high school aged troll because no one is that stupid.

No I didn't mean Joan of Arc.....I meant Fu Hao-Queen Consort/Warrior to King Wu Ding. Shang Dynasty! His #1 General who was ruthless.

Wu Zetian would become a Chinese Emperor.

It's funny. She was a general and no place does it say anything about here skills in combat, nothing. It does mention she died of fatigue which falls right in line with what the study's say. This thread is not about the ability of women to lead or be officers. It's about females in ground combat units, period.

Moreover Wing Chun a hard form style of Kung Fu was created by a Woman. That would be the style that IPMAN and Lee learned. In fighting, up close and personal.

And this is relevant to women in ground combat units how?

I think we are done here. I can only take so many strawman fallacy's.
 
Actually no they diffident. Israel removed females from ground combat units and you can keep ignoring that. On top of that they said it was a mistake to ever do it. You can keep ignoring that as well. South Korea is adding women for a completely different reason...

The main mission of the South's 650,000-strong armed forces is to deter any attack from North Korea's 1.2 million-strong military, but they also serve in United Nations peacekeeping missions.



I grew up on the South Side of Chicago, 704 East 92nd place, went to Burnside. I know you are just some high school aged troll because no one is that stupid.



It's funny. She was a general and no place does it say anything about here skills in combat, nothing. It does mention she died of fatigue which falls right in line with what the study's say. This thread is not about the ability of women to lead or be officers. It's about females in ground combat units, period.



And this is relevant to women in ground combat units how?

I think we are done here. I can only take so many strawman fallacy's.

Really.....I grew up on a 115th and Kensington and was round when the race riots were jumping off. I take it you should remember Calumet Park. Save the bs with the little kiddie shiznit. I am 61 and a survivor of the time period. Later I would move to the East Side. 104th in L. From South Daring to 26th California. Care to try again. You should know the turf right off the top of your head then and who I am talking about specifically. So much for your lack of knowledge before you moved to the sticks.

As for your deflection on the strawman argument. Truthfully I cannot help it that you do not know how to read. The title of the Thread is.....Should Women be allowed in Combat roles in the Military. No one said anything about on the ground specifically.
owned.gif




Next time I would recommend you Concentrate.....First, before coming at me with all that touchy feely stuff!
evil5.gif
 
Really.....I grew up on a 115th and Kensington and was round when the race riots were jumping off. I take it you should remember Calumet Park. Save the bs with the little kiddie shiznit. I am 61 and a survivor of the time period. Later I would move to the East Side. 104th in L. From South Daring to 26th California. Care to try again. You should know the turf right off the top of your head then and who I am talking about specifically. So much for your lack of knowledge before you moved to the sticks.

Don't think so. Anyone could list that **** from a quick search on the internet. Sorry you come off like a teenage troll. So I am going to run with it. :mrgreen:

As for your deflection on the strawman argument. Truthfully I cannot help it that you do not know how to read. The title of the Thread is.....Should Women be allowed in Combat roles in the Military. No one said anything about on the ground specifically.
owned.gif

Does not make your statements any less crap that has little to do with females in combat. Hell you listed mythology as fact. And you say I can't read. LMAO!



Next time I would recommend you Concentrate.....First, before coming at me with all that touchy feely stuff!
evil5.gif


Next time I would say have a legitimate argument with some evidence. You mite not come off looking like well, you know. ;)
 
Last edited:
Don't think so. Anyone could list that **** from a quick search on the internet. Sorry you come off like a teenage troll. So I am going to run with it. :mrgreen:



Does not make your statements any less crap that has little to do with females in combat. Hell you listed mythology as fact. And you say I can't read. LMAO!



Next time I would say have a legitimate argument with some evidence. You mite not come off looking like well, you know. ;)

smiley_ROFLMAO.gif
Right they could get that off the internet. Not with those neighborhoods and who I was talking about. They can probably find that those neighborhoods exist. But not who was dominating that scene. But thats alright you run with it......seems you are good at that. The Running thingy. Just not so good at the diss.....huh? Hence your ......
rolleyes.gif
so called retort.



Thats alright......what U talkin bout. It Ain't Nothin. Kinda like that name that carries no weight.
wink.gif
 
:doh rap videos.

you are attempting to argue that women should serve in combat units based off of the Wu Tang Clan and rap videos.



news flash for you: the military is not just learning about guerrilla warfare. we've been doing it for some time now.

perhaps I can suggest some light reading for you:

220px-Small_Wars_Manual.jpg
 
:doh rap videos.

you are attempting to argue that women should serve in combat units based off of the Wu Tang Clan and rap videos.



news flash for you: the military is not just learning about guerrilla warfare. we've been doing it for some time now.

perhaps I can suggest some light reading for you:

220px-Small_Wars_Manual.jpg

Newsflash: how long they been working on the urban style. I was experiencing it in the early 60 sixties. Granted they werent using assualt weapons. But a 357 or a sawed-off stepping out from behind you pretty much ended the story. Worse if it was some chick that blew someones buddy away.

Oh and I don't have to use rap. I can use just about any type of music to bring whatever point home that I want to. Especially when it comes to the diss and those that like to bring that affront or aflfiction.

As in real world. I have NP standing up front and center. Such is the same for me in any world. Despite all visual perceptions.

103997900.jpg


I would recommend the Art of Darkness: Deception and Urban Operations. It might help you to get past the pawn mentality.

As to the issue of women.....no the point is, they are human and can fight. Whether forced into combat or volunterring for it. Always could, always did, and always will!
 
no, no, that's fine. once you've descended to utilizing this line of evidence as all that is left for you, I would prefer you to continue to make your argument unimpeded.
 
no, no, that's fine. once you've descended to utilizing this line of evidence as all that is left for you, I would prefer you to continue to make your argument unimpeded.

I was pretty much done with what I had to say. As far as descending. I don't mind stepping back down, in the levels of those Games People Play......keeps me in my youth.
 
:roll: alright. so off the top of your head what do you think, for example, the kill ratio's were in the Battle of Fallujah?

Give you a hint: it was greater than 20 - to - 1 in favor of disciplined soldier style forces who were taking on warrior style forces that were defending an urban environment on their own home turf.

once again, units of "soldiers" wipe out units of "warriors". Despite the fact that they were outnumbered in the assault.
 
I'm conflicted on posting on this thread. Oh well.
I spent a little more than 8 months working with a woman that was a peer in duty responsibilities while I was in the USAF, '72. This was after I returned from SEA and before release. After a short time in the job I was 18 semester hours at a jr. college. This forced the NCOIC to put me on permanent swing shift. She and I had no problem working together. So the NCOIC of the shop put us both on permanent swing shift because of this. All others, men, rotated shifts. I would have no problem if we had a combat roll together and she could do the tasks required. But, most of the other men in my duty section had a problem working with her in out 'safe' environment. That is why the NCOIC put her with me on my permanent swing shift. If we had a combat roll this wouldn't work. Not because of the woman but because of the men.
 
:roll: alright. so off the top of your head what do you think, for example, the kill ratio's were in the Battle of Fallujah?

Give you a hint: it was greater than 20 - to - 1 in favor of disciplined soldier style forces who were taking on warrior style forces that were defending an urban environment on their own home turf.

once again, units of "soldiers" wipe out units of "warriors". Despite the fact that they were outnumbered in the assault.

I answered your questions. You can disagree. But Gurerilla warfare has shown you the way. So what happened to, Why do women make the Best Assassins. Or were you letting that slip on by you. Is an Assasin a Warrior? You're in Japan look into some of that Japanese History. What is your take on the Ninja or better yet, Amida Tong? Which isn't Japanese.
 
Santorum says no, they should be banned. So do many other Republicans. What say you?

I think women should be given the same opportunity if they can pass all the physical and mental endurance requirements and have the temperament for combat.

I am sure there are women who could and would ... honestly though as a female I doubt the majority of women could do so. I apologize to my female comrads that i piss off with this opinion yet it is well considered and simply imho.
 
Last edited:
I answered your questions. You can disagree. But Gurerilla warfare has shown you the way.

what we have learned of Guerrilla warfare simply reinforces the lessons I and others have drawn out for you here - disciplined men acting as units rather than individuals dominate the battlefield, and are capable of defeating larger numbers of individuals.

So what happened to, Why do women make the Best Assassins. Or were you letting that slip on by you

1. I have yet to see it demonstrated.
2. If it was demonstrated, it would have zero impact on whether or not we want to have them in our combat units.

Is an Assasin a Warrior?

not if they are good at their job. Warriors are generally fighting people who fight back. They tend to seek out conflict as a way of proving themselves. Good assassins, in contrast are long gone before it is realized that they were there. Which is why they are generally regarded as cowards by more standard forces :shrug:.

You're in Japan look into some of that Japanese History. What is your take on the Ninja or better yet, Amida Tong? Which isn't Japanese.

oh I've done my reading on the Shugo Daimyo Period :).
 
Last edited:
I think women should be given the same opportunity if they can pass all the physical and mental endurance requirements and have the temperament for combat.

I am sure there are women who could and would ... honestly though as a female I doubt the majority of women could do so. I apologize to my female comrads that i piss off with this opinion yet it is well considered and simply imho.

if combat were an individual sport, I would tend to agree with you. but combat is a team sport; and individual abilities are irrelevant except inasmuch as they benefit or harm the team.
 
If we're talking about running a Bradley's guns or operating a combat drone or driving a tank, sure.

Infantry is a different ballgame. It isn't just a matter of being a good shot.

Infantry's #1 job description is "must be able to suffer great physical/environmental hardships and remain functional", followed by "must be able to hump ungodly amounts of gear across terrain goats would consider rough".

Not all healthy young men qualify for infantry, either.

Some women can qual #1, but far fewer can qual #2. As far as I'm concerned those who CAN should be able to be in those units... but if everyone in Company C is expected to be able to hump 108 pounds of gear afoot across mountainous terrain, I can see a problem if a woman is allowed in the unit and the most she can hump is 65 lbs. Means someone else has to carry nearly half her gear.... that would be a problem.

Women in combat, yes....but only if they meet the same standards for that particular unit type as the men. JMO.

Really soldiers are walking miles in the desert in Iraq carrying loads of gear?

Why don't they use the hummer? That's what we got them for.
 
if combat were an individual sport, I would tend to agree with you. but combat is a team sport; and individual abilities are irrelevant except inasmuch as they benefit or harm the team.

That is a good point on the team issue ... although I like to think military combat is for defense and not for sport.

In addition ... I have developed new viewpoints recently on men and women in close intimate quarters and sexuality and in combat it seems to present impossible roadblocks.
 
Really soldiers are walking miles in the desert in Iraq carrying loads of gear?

Why don't they use the hummer? That's what we got them for.

for a several reasons.

1. in a counterinsurgency, the populace is what we call the Key Terrain (the feature that you need to work for you rather than for the enemy). In a truck, you can't interact with the populace.

2. In a truck, you are highly limited in your mobility. you are generally stuck to roads of a certain soil type, grade, and width. on foot you can go anywhere.

3. it is hard as crap to see IED's in trucks. It is much easier to see them on the ground.


We would take multi-day foot patrols carrying all our gear, water, etc. in Iraq. Because it was far more effective than simply driving down the road and driving back.
 
That is a good point on the team issue ... although I like to think military combat is for defense and not for sport.

well yes, but it gives people a model to work with. a "team" of fantastic star players who have cooperation issues will usually lose to the "team" of competent players who work well together.

In addition ... I have developed new viewpoints recently on men and women in close intimate quarters and sexuality and in combat it seems to present impossible roadblocks.

well, in any stressfull circumstances, really. especially stressfull intimate circumstances (and there are few lifestyles so intimate as an infantry squad).
 
Back
Top Bottom