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Animal Abuse Registry

Is a State Animal Abuse Registry a good idea?

  • Total voters
    53
Kal'Stang said:
As someone who is helping to write the law then you should be able to allay our concerns. You have yet to do so.

What good is this law going to actually do? Is it actually going to stop a person from getting and abusing an animal? Because so far the answer to these is none and no. Which means this "law" is nothing more than further punishment to people that have already been convicted and served their time and a hazard to those people and to innocent people.

As someone who has been convicted of a crime and knows what it is like even 19 years afterwards with a clean record since I can tell you that I am still being punished by society...and my name isn't even on a list that someone can casually look up on the net.
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It is nothing more than a scarlet letter for revenge against someone who dares to mistreat an animal unless of course they are hunting or working at a food packing plant etc. An animal must be cute and fuzzy to get any kind of protection I guess. That is the truth of this feel good superficial crap legislation.
 
Kal'Stang said:
As someone who is helping to write the law then you should be able to allay our concerns. You have yet to do so.

What good is this law going to actually do? Is it actually going to stop a person from getting and abusing an animal? Because so far the answer to these is none and no. Which means this "law" is nothing more than further punishment to people that have already been convicted and served their time and a hazard to those people and to innocent people.

As someone who has been convicted of a crime and knows what it is like even 19 years afterwards with a clean record since I can tell you that I am still being punished by society...and my name isn't even on a list that someone can casually look up on the net.
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There is an old saying that you cannot cheat an honest man. I think we need a new variant of it to the point that you cannot convince someone who already has their mind made up in advance and is impervious to the facts. It seems you have some personal issues based on your own personal history of crime and you are certainly not the average citizen on this matter.

We will agree to disagree.

The law will help - it is not intended to be a 100% cure all. Again - please do not make the perfect the enemy of the good.
 
haymarket said:
There is an old saying that you cannot cheat an honest man. I think we need a new variant of it to the point that you cannot convince someone who already has their mind made up in advance and is impervious to the facts. It seems you have some personal issues based on your own personal history of crime and you are certainly not the average citizen on this matter.

We will agree to disagree.

The law will help - it is not intended to be a 100% cure all. Again - please do not make the perfect the enemy of the good.
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So the pot says to the kettle.....

You have not listened to any of the people against the bill. You have not been able to show where this list has had any impact in the two counties where it is already law. You cannot show how the law will stop a single instance of cruelty from happening. You were not able to refute that the potential Ax Murderers that start out killing puppies can also be tracked in different ways besides a Public list. You have not been able to show that the list will not be abused by PETA wing nuts.

You asked opinions on how to make this bill better, we gave our opinion that the best thing for it would be a Shredder.
You ignored that and went with what your boss's wanted. I do not believe you went into this with an open mind.
 
haymarket said:
There is an old saying that you cannot cheat an honest man. I think we need a new variant of it to the point that you cannot convince someone who already has their mind made up in advance and is impervious to the facts. It seems you have some personal issues based on your own personal history of crime and you are certainly not the average citizen on this matter.

We will agree to disagree.

The law will help - it is not intended to be a 100% cure all. Again - please do not make the perfect the enemy of the good.
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Typical. You cannot answer the questions posed to you without showing that this law is ultimately worthless so you dismiss me while at the same time showing that people do indeed continue to get punished for past misdeeds long after the court system sentence has faded and there is no need for more punishment. You have just shown that you are not actually interested in what people actually think. You are just interested in an image.

One would think that if a law negatively affects "the good" then it too is the enemy. So which is the worst enemy? The "perfect" law that does not negatively affect the good? Or the imperfect law that does negatively affect the good?

As the old saying goes..."The road to hell is paved with good intentions".
 
Your questions were answered. It may not satisfy your curiosity. but you still got the answer.

Perhaps you need to take a deep breath and come to the realization that this is NOT about you.
 
Blackdog said:
It is nothing more than a scarlet letter for revenge against someone who dares to mistreat an animal unless of course they are hunting or working at a food packing plant etc. An animal must be cute and fuzzy to get any kind of protection I guess. That is the truth of this feel good superficial crap legislation.
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I think this is closer to the truth than anything else.
 
haymarket said:
The law will help - it is not intended to be a 100% cure all. Again - please do not make the perfect the enemy of the good.
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The only thing this law will help will be to facilitate your discrimination against a sect of people you wish to discriminate against.
 
Chiefgator said:
So the pot says to the kettle.....

You have not listened to any of the people against the bill. You have not been able to show where this list has had any impact in the two counties where it is already law. You cannot show how the law will stop a single instance of cruelty from happening. You were not able to refute that the potential Ax Murderers that start out killing puppies can also be tracked in different ways besides a Public list. You have not been able to show that the list will not be abused by PETA wing nuts.

You asked opinions on how to make this bill better, we gave our opinion that the best thing for it would be a Shredder.
You ignored that and went with what your boss's wanted. I do not believe you went into this with an open mind.
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Baloney.

People here had concerns about cat ladies and animal hoarders.
I answered those concerns and stated the bill does not include such persons.

People had concerned about the time on the list - that lifetime was too long.
I answered that pointing out the five year limit.

People were concerned about an average citizen being able to get your social security and other data.
I answered that pointing out they could not.

People brought up the Craigs List problem.
I stated we were working on that problem right now.

As to not being able to show the list will not be abused by PETA.......I also cannot disprove a claim that three inch monkeys made of blue flame play professional basketball underneath the surface of Uranus. So what?

My mind is very open to trying to help and protect animals.
 
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haymarket said:
People brought up the Craigs List problem.
I stated we were working on that problem right now.
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Can't wait to see what kind of Nazi ( I know Godwin, lol) crap they will come up with for that. Hell it may be able to even be easier to privately sell someone a Tec 9 vs a Kitten.

haymarket said:
As to not being able to show the list will not be abused by PETA.......I also cannot disprove a claim that three inch monkeys made of blue flame play professional basketball underneath the surface of Uranus. So what?
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"So what?" sums that up nicely. So you don't care is what this is really saying.

haymarket said:
My mind is very open to trying to help and protect animals.
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Only if they are cute, cows and chickens you are out of luck!

What about people who eat cat and dog? Is that abuse as well? Will they end up on your list? :lol:
 
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haymarket said:
People here had concerns about cat ladies and animal hoarders.
I answered those concerns and stated the bill does not include such persons.
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You said that such people are considered to have mental problems and would not be included. Yet the law that you have shown us does not show this is so.

haymarket said:
People had concerned about the time on the list - that lifetime was too long.
I answered that pointing out the five year limit.
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Again, once something is put on the net it will always be there. You have not disproved this. As such your 5 year limit is worthless.

haymarket said:
People were concerned about an average citizen being able to get your social security and other data.
I answered that pointing out they could not.
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I do remember you answering this question but I do not remember exactly what you said. Since i'm feeling lazy and don't want to find the post I'll just say...Ok.

haymarket said:
People brought up the Craigs List problem.
I stated we were working on that problem right now.
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Working on it how? Craigslist is nothing more than a ton of private sellers advertising what they have to sell or advertising for something that they want. So the only way that you can "work on it" is by interfering with private sales of legal goods. Something which even the federal government has not been able to fully do successfully. Nor should they...or you.

haymarket said:
As to not being able to show the list will not be abused by PETA.......I also cannot disprove a claim that three inch monkeys made of blue flame play professional basketball underneath the surface of Uranus. So what?
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So in otherwords you don't know and are perfectly willing to risk peoples lives for your agenda. And no I'm not just talking about possible deaths, I'm including everything that there is to life.

You also have not answered how this is going to actually stop people from abusing animals. Which is what should actually be addressed.
 
Blackdog said:
Can't wait to see what kind of Nazi ( I know Godwin, lol) crap they will come up with for that. Hell it may be able to even be easier to privately sell someone a Tec 9 vs a Kitten.



"So what?" sums that up nicely. So you don't care is what this is really saying.
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I really do not care what you are saying.

When you jump to the Nazi's - you pretty much give up.
 
haymarket said:
I really do not care what you are saying.

When you jump to the Nazi's - you pretty much give up.
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Sometimes. It's just as false to immediately dismiss the analogy as it is to recklessly employ it.
 
Blackdog said:
Can't wait to see what kind of Nazi ( I know Godwin, lol) crap they will come up with for that. Hell it may be able to even be easier to privately sell someone a Tec 9 vs a Kitten.



"So what?" sums that up nicely. So you don't care is what this is really saying.

Only if they are cute, cows and chickens you are out of luck!

What about people who eat cat and dog? Is that abuse as well? Will they end up on your list? :lol:
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Thanx Kal. So where did not have the opportunity to answer but it didn't matter, you summed it up quite well.
 
Thank you for addressing those other questions. I do not feel the answers are adequate, but I admit that you did address them.
 


I really think people take the whole animal abuse thing too seriously. I have seen children starving...and yet somehow PETA gets press.
 
If I see you starve your child or kick your cat, I will call the cops on you. Evil is evil. The news is just a capitalistic way of disseminating information, regardless of priority, accuracy or value.
 
haymarket said:
I really do not care what you are saying.

When you jump to the Nazi's - you pretty much give up.
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And how so?

Although extreme, and although not all situations allow for drawing parallels to the various stages of their regime, there are some very valid times/cases to draw a parallel. IMO, you give off the appearance of giving up moreso by arbitrarily declaring an analogy invalid and ALL similar analogies invalid regardless - and in the process misusing Godwin's Law, which ONLY states that the farther a discussion goes on the more likely such references / analogy to Hitler/Nazis/Naziism/etc are going to be made - THAT'S IT. It says NOTHING ABOUT the merit or lack thereof of bringing in the analogy, or anything like that.
 
haymarket said:
I really do not care what you are saying.

When you jump to the Nazi's - you pretty much give up.
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I know you got nothing to back up this freedom trashing garbage legislation, so this is just par for the course.
 
from Kal stang

So in otherwords you don't know and are perfectly willing to risk peoples lives for your agenda.
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Aha! So now you are reduced to the ultimate in over the top hyperbole. A bill which says a pet store or breeder must check to make sure a convicted abuser is not on a list now suddenly becomes a threat to life itself.

Just when you think you have read the most desperate attempt to stretch something beyond the breaking point, out comes something like this. It is truly digging a basement under the bottom of the barrel.

It is obvious you have a shred of objectivity on this issue.
 
Chiefgator said:
Is Nazi so much more outrageous than blue flame monkeys playing basketball???
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Now lets all slow down here and think for a minute with out heads instead of our hearts ...... you do know the difference between the historical reality of the Nazi's and what they did and three inch blue flame monkeys who play professional basketball under the surface of Uranus don't you?
 
Blackdog said:
I know you got nothing to back up this freedom trashing garbage legislation, so this is just par for the course.
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This would be your freedom to do what exactly?
 
haymarket said:
Aha! So now you are reduced to the ultimate in over the top hyperbole. A bill which says a pet store or breeder must check to make sure a convicted abuser is not on a list now suddenly becomes a threat to life itself.
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Nice twist, but no cigar. He was talking about the information like residence and name begin publicly available for the wako fringe of the animal rights crowed to get a hold of. Of course you knew that.

haymarket said:
Just when you think you have read the most desperate attempt to stretch something beyond the breaking point, out comes something like this. It is truly digging a basement under the bottom of the barrel.
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Yea I pretty much got that from your post too.

haymarket said:
It is obvious you have a shred of objectivity on this issue.
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Pot meet kettle.
 
haymarket said:
This would be your freedom to do what exactly?
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Not be punished beyond serving time or paying a fine by being marked with a scarlet letter and branded for 5 years beyond. Then having my name and residence made public plus being charged $50 for the pleasure of having my right to privacy stripped away so you can feel better about an abused animal.
 
Blackdog said:
Not be punished beyond serving time or paying a fine by being marked with a scarlet letter and branded for 5 years beyond. Then having my name and residence made public plus being charged $50 for the pleasure of having my right to privacy stripped away so you can feel better about an abused animal.
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And having your name on this registry takes away your freedom to do what exactly? How you feel about yourself is no freedom. The stigma you have on you for your own actions is not freedom. You do not have any right to be free of guilt of consequences from your own illegal actions.
 
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