View Poll Results: Is a State Animal Abuse Registry a good idea?

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  • YES- this is a good idea

    27 36.00%
  • NO - this is not necessary

    39 52.00%
  • I like to abuse animals and do not want to be stopped

    3 4.00%
  • I am an animal

    6 8.00%
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Thread: Animal Abuse Registry

  1. #351
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Really? Well, if that is the case then if someone came to your house, called to your adult pets and your pets went to them it would be safe to assume that you would let that person take them home? After all the cats went willingly...
    Same idea applies to humans? Pets are companions, pets are adopted. Yes you must pay some money, even when you adopt from a shelter, but you must also pay money to have a child or adopt a child. A pet is no more your property than your child.

    Even though sometimes I think they are more intelligent than some humans I know, the fact is they are not, an "adult" pet is purely a description of a passage of time.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  2. #352
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    Same idea applies to humans? Pets are companions, pets are adopted. Yes you must pay some money, even when you adopt from a shelter, but you must also pay money to have a child or adopt a child. A pet is no more your property than your child.
    Pets are property, you own them. Children are not, you don't own them. No comparison here.

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    Even though sometimes I think they are more intelligent than some humans I know, the fact is they are not, an "adult" pet is purely a description of a passage of time.
    Did you read that back to yourself? I weep for the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  3. #353
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Pets are property, you own them. Children are not, you don't own them. No comparison here.



    Did you read that back to yourself? I weep for the future.
    As I mentioned a few posts back, women, children and slaves used to be property. How can you "own" something you can "adopt"?

    referring to something / someone as an adult is indicative of the passage of time, not a mental state.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  4. #354
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    As I mentioned a few posts back, women, children and slaves used to be property. How can you "own" something you can "adopt"?
    That was then, animals are not and will never be a human, period. It has absolutely no bearing.

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    referring to something / someone as an adult is indicative of the passage of time, not a mental state.
    Animals that are adults of their species are not children because they are not human.

    You are desperately trying to give human understanding and feelings to an animal. It is not the same.

    In fact I have more respect for people who are against all animal cruelty over people who just want to protect the cute and fuzzy one.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 03-25-12 at 06:30 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  5. #355
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    That was then, animals are not and will never be a human, period. It has absolutely no bearing.



    Animals that are adults of their species are not children because they are not human.

    You are desperately trying to give human understanding and feelings to an animal. It is not the same.

    In fact I have more respect for people who are against all animal cruelty over people who just want to protect the cute and fuzzy one.
    I don't want to just protect the cute and fuzzy one. Animals have emotions, is you want to claim they are chemical reactions etc.. then the same is true of humans. Just because they do not have opposable thumbs and have not dictated a book does not mean that they can't think. All animals learn. Some learn to open doors and drawers, some learn to help people cross the street and provide love. Some humans will never learn those things.

    Animals learn their own language, they learn some words from our language. Animals do have feelings and thought and can "figure" out how to do things, including how to trick us humans who have larger IQ's than they do.

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

  6. #356
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    I don't want to just protect the cute and fuzzy one. Animals have emotions, is you want to claim they are chemical reactions etc.. then the same is true of humans. Just because they do not have opposable thumbs and have not dictated a book does not mean that they can't think. All animals learn. Some learn to open doors and drawers, some learn to help people cross the street and provide love. Some humans will never learn those things.
    So what? This does not make them human. It also does not give them human emotion and understanding.

    Then I assume you are a vegetarian? Including no dairy?

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    Animals learn their own language, they learn some words from our language. Animals do have feelings and thought and can "figure" out how to do things, including how to trick us humans who have larger IQ's than they do.
    Animals communicate, they do not have "language," humans have many languages, not animals. Animals have rudimentary feelings yes, this is not human emotion which is far more complex.

    The rest again is trying to attribute human thought etc onto an animal. Sorry, it does not float.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #357
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    Animals have emotions
    Some, but nowhere near all.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  8. #358
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    Same idea applies to humans? Pets are companions, pets are adopted. Yes you must pay some money, even when you adopt from a shelter, but you must also pay money to have a child or adopt a child. A pet is no more your property than your child.
    Where do I start?

    One: You do not HAVE to pay money to have a child. If you have sex and get pregnant then whether you have money or not, have that child in a back alley or a hospital that child is coming. (assuming its not miscarried or aborted of course). You WILL have that child.

    Two: You may pay an adoption agency to get a child but you are not paying them for the child. You are paying them for the legal fees, the time and effort they put into making sure you are a fit parent, etc etc. It is not legal to sell human beings, child or adult. The ones that are sold are called slaves...and yes, property. However if you go into a pet shop you literally buy an animal. There are no legal fees, no time and effort made to make sure you are a fit owner (note that is what people that have animals are called...owners) fees.

    Three: Yes, pets can be considered companions. But not all pets are. You can raise pets to be eaten later on in life. Cows, chickens, pigs can all be considered pets and even companions. Doesn't mean you still can't shoot em and eat em. Or heck...even just shoot em period.

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    Even though sometimes I think they are more intelligent than some humans I know, the fact is they are not, an "adult" pet is purely a description of a passage of time.
    Actually an "adult" is not "purely a description of a passage of time". It is also a biological distinction. A human adult is a great deal different from that of a human child. Now I do admit that for humans the "legal age" at which someone "becomes" an adult is arbritrary. But ultimately all of this is just getting into semantics and I'm sure that you know that. So let me rephrase the question for you so as to try and avoid the semantics game....

    Considering my previous scenario would you, or would you not, let your cat who is the equivalent biological age of a human adult of say...50, go home with someone besides you if they went willingly?

    BTW, I do agree with you about the intelligence of animals. In fact some dolphins have shown to have just as high of an IQ as your average human. I have also seen it for myself with other pets that we have owned over the years. I also believe that pets have an instinct when it comes to people. I've seen cats hiss at people who I know are not good and I've also seen them jump into peoples laps who I know are good...even if the cat had never seen them before in both cases. Hell, we once had a cat that every time my mother went to do laundry in the laundry room that cat would purposely jump up and shut off the lights on my mother (our cat was one HELL of a jumper). And you could tell that she (the cat) was doing it to tease my mom, for the simple fact that after she shut off the lights she would hide and watch for my mom to turn the light back on and redo it all again.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  9. #359
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by taxigirl View Post
    I don't want to just protect the cute and fuzzy one. Animals have emotions, is you want to claim they are chemical reactions etc.. then the same is true of humans. Just because they do not have opposable thumbs and have not dictated a book does not mean that they can't think. All animals learn. Some learn to open doors and drawers, some learn to help people cross the street and provide love. Some humans will never learn those things.

    Animals learn their own language, they learn some words from our language. Animals do have feelings and thought and can "figure" out how to do things, including how to trick us humans who have larger IQ's than they do.
    As such you really can't use the idea that you wouldn't let them willingly go home with someone else because they are " like children" now can you? After all if they are THAT much like humans then shouldn't they be able to make their own decisions as an adult of their species? Please keep in mind that this response is all geared towards the question that I have posed to you.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  10. #360
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    So what? This does not make them human. It also does not give them human emotion and understanding.

    Then I assume you are a vegetarian? Including no dairy?



    Animals communicate, they do not have "language," humans have many languages, not animals. Animals have rudimentary feelings yes, this is not human emotion which is far more complex.

    The rest again is trying to attribute human thought etc onto an animal. Sorry, it does not float.
    If animals do not think how do they learn?
    If they do not have feelings what makes them console an upset human?
    Researchers and even your average joe have noted the vocal responses between animals. They do have a language, if you are more comfortable with it then how about a system of symbols, those symbols being noises.

    I never said it makes them human, they do have similarities and they have differences, as do all living creatures. I think you might better understand what I mean when thinking of feral children (I'm not talking about the Tarzan movies).

    See how different Genie is from other humans and how having no socialization affected her We accept social norms being forced upon almost without question, but Genie and other like her (yes there have been more -- even in the "wild"). I am not saying Genie is an animal or reducing her competence to equal that of a dog. Much human behavior is learned, as it is in animals, socialization is learned, emotions exist, socialization puts a name to them.

    I just now thought that there are many places we can take this thread -- maybe we should start one on this instead of the registry --? just a thought.

    It is past my bedtime and I would like to go snuggle with my companions Dora and Butters (before you even say it as a joke -- yes I have a human companion as well).

    "You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all"
    --Randolph J. Dworkin

    ďReading makes a full man, meditation a profound man, discourse a clear man.Ē
    -- Ben Franklin

    "It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world"
    -- Chaos Theory

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