View Poll Results: Is a State Animal Abuse Registry a good idea?

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  • YES- this is a good idea

    27 36.00%
  • NO - this is not necessary

    39 52.00%
  • I like to abuse animals and do not want to be stopped

    3 4.00%
  • I am an animal

    6 8.00%
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Thread: Animal Abuse Registry

  1. #201
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    Not your reality certainly, and that is fine by me. I use those sources that have actually worked or studied in the area, rather than opine on something that I have little or no knowledge of.

    As I cited previously, a CORI check would be conducted on those that wish to work/volunteer in the school system of Massachusetts would uncover a person who is an animal abuser. The reason why that is important and would serve society is:

    see "Animal Cruelty and Psychiatric Disorders" Roman Gleyzer, MD, Alan R. Felthous, MD, and Charles E. Holzer III, PhD http://jaapl.org/content/30/2/257.full.pdf

    If I had a school age child, a kindergartner, I would not want this person to be around the students. Word of mouth, a well intentioned comment will do little to reverse the effects of a person who should not be around a certain population of society.
    So we throw all these people on a list because maybe they might do something more in the future, possibly. OK. And then you're going to use this list to do exactly what I said would be a downfall of this list. Single out and repress people based on your bigotries and assumptions. So someone acts out, maybe “abuses” an animal, gets on the list. Now what? All of a sudden here comes Connery charging down on his high horse that he somehow balanced on a soap box while charging, which is quite the feat. THAT GUY…HE CAN’T BE NEAR KIDS! Let’s restrict where they can live, let’s restrict where they can work, let’s flip out at every possible probability that has yet to develop because…well we ain’t got anything better to do apparently.

    Whatever, you just want this list so you can figure out who to single out so you can throw your mud around. And you pretend that it’s somehow all “for the children”. Why…why does that excuse get used all the time when people want to expand government but know that what they call for is iffy at best?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  2. #202
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    Not your reality certainly, and that is fine by me. I use those sources that have actually worked or studied in the area, rather than opine on something that I have little or no knowledge of.

    As I cited previously, a CORI check would be conducted on those that wish to work/volunteer in the school system of Massachusetts would uncover a person who is an animal abuser. The reason why that is important and would serve society is:

    see "Animal Cruelty and Psychiatric Disorders" Roman Gleyzer, MD, Alan R. Felthous, MD, and Charles E. Holzer III, PhD http://jaapl.org/content/30/2/257.full.pdf

    If I had a school age child, a kindergartner, I would not want this person to be around the students. Word of mouth, a well intentioned comment will do little to reverse the effects of a person who should not be around a certain population of society.
    These are chronic abusers with hefty criminal records to begin with. So how would a registry change this? It wouldn't. Here is the fly in your ointment...

    When a person turns 18 the juvenile record is sealed. So even if they had this history, minors cannot be put in a public registry and juvenile records cannot be used in court. So it would make no difference according to this data. The hard core abusers are as the data shows in the system for more than just animal cruelty, so they could not get a job teaching anyway.

    All this list would do is make targets of minor offenders and nothing else would really be gained.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  3. #203
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    How will this stop abuse???? The death penalty does not stop murder and the sex offender list does not stop sex offenders, so why would this stop anything at all??? Makes no sense. At least the sex offender list helps parents keep an eye out on the children. This animal list is just useless revenge.
    Actually it does make sense if you put aside ideology and look at pragmatics.

    We had a recent case here in Lansing where a MSU medical student bought a series of a dozen purebreed greyhound puppies and smashed them against the walls and floor. Sadly, he was not caught until the end. If we had this registry, each time he bought a puppy, a check would be made to see if he was on the registry. Each time a check is made, it would leave a record of that search. Perhaps he would have been discovered with five checks made... or six ....

    If it helps save animals it is not useless.
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  4. #204
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefgator View Post
    Can you show me a single instance where this database has stopped an incident of abuse in the places it has already been enacted?
    This is a brand new idea.
    __________________________________________________ _
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  5. #205
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Actually it does make sense if you put aside ideology and look at pragmatics.

    We had a recent case here in Lansing where a MSU medical student bought a series of a dozen purebreed greyhound puppies and smashed them against the walls and floor. Sadly, he was not caught until the end. If we had this registry, each time he bought a puppy, a check would be made to see if he was on the registry. Each time a check is made, it would leave a record of that search. Perhaps he would have been discovered with five checks made... or six ....

    If it helps save animals it is not useless.
    So any time you buy a pet at the store or from a private owner etc, a check would be made? So I have to now give up private information to my local pet store to by a hamster etc???

    Absolutely preposterous.

    Why would I change my ideology when I see it as correct? I understand the need to protect animals from abuse, but I am not willing to give up privacy because I want a dog.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #206
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    This is a brand new idea.
    Earlier you stated that it had been enacted in two other places already. You made that claim to refute the possibility that PETA would target the people on this list.
    As a dreamer of dreams and a travellin' man, I have chalked up many a mile.
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  7. #207
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Your opinion is no more or less valuable than mine.

    There was a time when blacks were viewed just as you presently view cats. Property. If you owned one, you could pretty much do as you pleased with them. All they wanted to do was work, eat, sleep and defecate. That was terribly wrong and so (IMHO) is your attitude toward domestic animals. It's convenient to presume that someone that is different is less than "human".

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Animals do not have ideals, and as for desires they amount to eat, sleep, play, procreate and defecate. The only pertinent objective any animal has is purely instinct for the most part. Some animals are very intelligent, but they are not human and never will be. If you own a pet, it is property. Now this does not mean a society should mistreat animals in any way, but they are still property and not in any way human.

    No one including Ikari has said a thing about abuse not being a big deal. We are saying it does not justify more government intervention when it is already a public record, and serves no real purpose other than make people targets.

    How you came to the conclusion is beyond me.

  8. #208
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    These are chronic abusers with hefty criminal records to begin with. So how would a registry change this? It wouldn't. Here is the fly in your ointment...

    When a person turns 18 the juvenile record is sealed. So even if they had this history, minors cannot be put in a public registry and juvenile records cannot be used in court. So it would make no difference according to this data. The hard core abusers are as the data shows in the system for more than just animal cruelty, so they could not get a job teaching anyway.

    All this list would do is make targets of minor offenders and nothing else would really be gained.

    Your interpretation is erroneous and self serving. The study is supportive of the idea that "animal cruelty [during childhood]was significantly associated with APD", this theory is not a stand alone proposition as supported by the several resources I have provided.

  9. #209
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So we throw all these people on a list because maybe they might do something more in the future, possibly. OK. And then you're going to use this list to do exactly what I said would be a downfall of this list. Single out and repress people based on your bigotries and assumptions. So someone acts out, maybe “abuses” an animal, gets on the list. Now what? All of a sudden here comes Connery charging down on his high horse that he somehow balanced on a soap box while charging, which is quite the feat. THAT GUY…HE CAN’T BE NEAR KIDS! Let’s restrict where they can live, let’s restrict where they can work, let’s flip out at every possible probability that has yet to develop because…well we ain’t got anything better to do apparently.

    Whatever, you just want this list so you can figure out who to single out so you can throw your mud around. And you pretend that it’s somehow all “for the children”. Why…why does that excuse get used all the time when people want to expand government but know that what they call for is iffy at best?

    No not because they "might" do something, but, to look at where they are in their development as people and to see if they have problems or a propensity toward violence.

  10. #210
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    No not because they "might" do something, but, to look at where they are in their development as people and to see if they have problems or a propensity toward violence.
    So they end up on this list and we send them to re-education camp then?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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