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Animal Abuse Registry

Is a State Animal Abuse Registry a good idea?

  • Total voters
    53
Chiefgator said:
I do not see how this can better society.
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For example in order to be required to register a person must have been convicted of cruelty to animals. This appearance is included in a CORI -- (Criminal Offender Record Information) search which is required to be conducted for any person who will interact with school children within the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, by way of example. If you have a school age child this is a great tool for the schools to use in weeding out those who present a potential harm to those attending or working within the school system. Again it has been established that "there is a very strong correlation between animal abuse and domestic violence".

This is one very good way society would be served by this legislation.


"Suffolk County, on the eastern half of Long Island, moved to create the nation's first animal abuse registry this week, requiring people convicted of cruelty to animals to register or face jail time and fines. We know there is a very strong correlation between animal abuse and domestic violence," said Suffolk County legislator Jon Cooper, the bill's sponsor. "Almost every serial killer starts out by torturing animals, so in a strange sense we could end up protecting the lives of people."
Animal Abuse Registry: Suffolk County, NY Creating Nation's First Public Database Tracking Animal Cruelty Offenders
 
haymarket said:
The DUI reference was yours - not mine. Where is the straw man in this proposed law? This is NOT about guns.
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I agree. The straw man constructed was mine. And no, it is not about guns. I used that straw man to make a point as well.
A strawM an is not always a bad thing when you admit it is an anology and only being used to make a point and not to refute the entire argument.
 
For the USA, a fat person registry would be better. People on it could not eat at McDonalds or buy Coke or other soda. :roll:

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I like this idea. Some people think they're badasses because they can pick on defenseless animals so let's tell the community of the actions they're so proud of. This is what they wanted to do. Why should this be a scarlet letter? That would presume they feel shame in the first place. If that were the case, they wouldn't have done anything like this to begin with. Maybe this shouldn't be as severe as sex offender registration (which I also support), maybe not lifetime registration, but for say, 5 years then they can be taken off of there have been no other instances.

This registry would only matter to those us who see animal abuse as a serious thing. Besides, identifying animal abusers help people too, since people who torture animals often go on to hurting people. In fact, torturing animals is how a lot of serial killers got their start.
 
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We don't need an animal abuse registry. It's not necessary and would be a wast of money.
 
Travelsonic said:
If it is modeled after the sex offender registry, it is bound to be riddled with the same logical quandaries, and real issues the list has now - from the ease of getting onto it, to the philosophical/moral issues associated with labeling people after they've committed a crime and paid their debt to society. IMO, if we allow ourselves to snap to an idea on an emotional note, and ignore the real questions surrounding the idea being supported emotionally, we're bound to make some grave errors - and do more harm than good.
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This, it is way too easy to get on the sex offender list, you often don't have to be what one would call a "sex offender". Idiots who streak at a football game can be forced to register as sex offenders, so can teens who have sex with their girl/boyfriends.

I don't think modelling anything after that mess of a system is a good thing.
 
Why not a registered animal sex offenders list? :mrgreen:
 
Your Star said:
This, it is way too easy to get on the sex offender list, you often don't have to be what one would call a "sex offender". Idiots who streak at a football game can be forced to register as sex offenders, so can teens who have sex with their girl/boyfriends.

I don't think modelling anything after that mess of a system is a good thing.
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It is the concept of a offender list that is being used. It is NOT the errors of that previous list that are being modeled.

As you travel through life,
where ever you may go.
Keep your eye on the donut
and not on the hole.
 
I rode the bike around a bit today. Lots of thinking time on a motorcycle....
And I could not come up with a reasonable instance where this would be necessary.

Then I got to thinking about the Constitutionality of it. How would this Not be considered Cruel and Unusual to permanently brand someone after they had paid their debt to society?
 
X Factor said:
This registry would only matter to those us who see animal abuse as a serious thing. Besides, identifying animal abusers help people too, since people who torture animals often go on to hurting people. In fact, torturing animals is how a lot of serial killers got their start.
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Interesting concept. Any data to back up this theory?
 
haymarket said:
Is this an idea whose time has come?
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I picked no.The huge vast majority of people who do not abuse animals should not be subjected to a back ground check because they want to buy a dog,cat, goldfish,chicken or some other animal.
 
haymarket said:
Anyone attempting to buy an animal from a breeder, store or adopt one from a shelter would have to go through a quick search of the data base to make sure they were not on it. If they were on it, they would be denied the opportunity to obtain another animal.
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So animal sellers now have to perform background checks before selling them? Profoundly unwieldy. People have resisted background checks at gun shows, and you want private breeders to lug laptops around with wireless internet connections at swap meets to sell bulldogs? Compliance will be nil, and local law enforcement is simply not going to dedicate the resources to enforce this.

I love animals as much as the next guy, but this registry is just too much. It adds a thick layer of infrastructure that is difficult to implement and unjustified for the seriousness of the crime in society. It seems obscene to be so focused on animals when there are stories of children in foster care being kept in abominable conditions, ignored by an already overstretched government making excuses about why they can't give the people in their charge the attention that they need.
 
Chiefgator said:
Interesting concept. Any data to back up this theory?
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How's this?

Ted Bundy, David Berkowitz and Jeffrey Dahmer have more in common than just being serial killers. These three murderers are also connected by the fact that each of them tortured and/or killed animals during their childhoods. "Researchers as well as FBI and other law enforcement agencies nationwide have linked animal cruelty to domestic violence, child abuse, serial killings and to the recent rash of killings by school age children", says Dr. Randall Lockwood (vice president of training and initiatives for the Humane Society of the United States.
Some children are cruel to and torture animals to impress their peers, but future serial killers usually torture animals purely for their own enjoyment. Animal abuse is a recognized sign of a mental disorder. If a child hurts animals it should be a red flag and immediate action should be taken. While there are many factors that contribute to someone becoming a serial killer, the one constant they share is animal abuse.
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The Link Between Animal Abuse and Serial Killers - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

From Animal Cruelty to Serial Murder: Applying the Graduation Hypothesis

The Link Between Serial Killers and Animal Abuse « Let's Adopt! Canada | saving animals, inspiring people

spcaLA | | TLC | Serial Killers and Animal Abuse
 
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Chiefgator said:
Interesting concept. Any data to back up this theory?
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Chief I provided some data in the links to back up my statement regarding the connection between animal abusers and domestic violence in post number 3. I provided an answer to your assertion that "[you] do not see how this can better society" in post number .
 
ChuckBerry said:
So animal sellers now have to perform background checks before selling them? Profoundly unwieldy. People have resisted background checks at gun shows, and you want private breeders to lug laptops around with wireless internet connections at swap meets to sell bulldogs? Compliance will be nil, and local law enforcement is simply not going to dedicate the resources to enforce this.
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LOL, yeah, "lugging" a laptop or tablet around is just soooo difficult. It's not like millions of people do it on a daily basis.

I love animals as much as the next guy, but this registry is just too much. It adds a thick layer of infrastructure that is difficult to implement and unjustified for the seriousness of the crime in society. It seems obscene to be so focused on animals when there are stories of children in foster care being kept in abominable conditions, ignored by an already overstretched government making excuses about why they can't give the people in their charge the attention that they need.
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Why does it always come to this? Why do people argue that we have to choose between animals and kids? Why can't we want to protect both?
 
Chiefgator said:
Then I got to thinking about the Constitutionality of it. How would this Not be considered Cruel and Unusual to permanently brand someone after they had paid their debt to society?
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Why would this "brand" anybody? If someone thinks it's fun to torture animals, why would it bother them to be on a list like that, if they're just doing something they obviously don't think is bad or wrong?
 
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One of the things I was hoping to come from this thread is a list of valid objections to the idea and reasons why this would not work so I could present it to the people sponsoring the bill.

Does anybody have any actual objections that make sense other than that it is not perfect and people do stupid things?
 
haymarket said:
One of the things I was hoping to come from this thread is a list of valid objections to the idea and reasons why this would not work so I could present it to the people sponsoring the bill.

Does anybody have any actual objections that make sense other than that it is not perfect and people do stupid things?
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My largest objection is that I still don't see the cost outweighing the benefit.
 
Connery said:
Chief I provided some data in the links to back up my statement regarding the connection between animal abusers and domestic violence in post number 3. I provided an answer to your assertion that "[you] do not see how this can better society" in post number .
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Thank you. I missed that some how. I went back and looking and it is very interesting and actually makes sense that a cruel person would start with animals and work up to humans.

I still do not see the use beyond some research data. The serial killers would just buy the puppies off Craigslist or steal them. They would not go to a pet dealer to spend big cash on registered type animals just to abuse them. Then again, mike Vick reportedly spent some pretty hefty coin on his dogs.
 
Chiefgator said:
Thank you. I missed that some how. I went back and looking and it is very interesting and actually makes sense that a cruel person would start with animals and work up to humans.

I still do not see the use beyond some research data. The serial killers would just buy the puppies off Craigslist or steal them. They would not go to a pet dealer to spend big cash on registered type animals just to abuse them. Then again, mike Vick reportedly spent some pretty hefty coin on his dogs.
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You are welcome Chief...the idea that I do like here is that if the abuser appears in court, when a school looks into the abuser's background they will see that this person has some explaining to do. This could prevent trouble. For those that have school age children should be welcomed news. I am more focused on the global aspect of what abusing animals could means as far as aberrant behavior than other aspects of this legislation.
 
X Factor said:
Why would this "brand" anybody? If someone thinks it's fun to torture animals, why would it bother them to be on a list like that, if they're just doing something they obviously don't think is bad or wrong?
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That seems, to me, to imply that it will be limited to just those types of people, and implies some sort of closure to the time one is on that list - neither of which seem apparent from the proposed idea.
 
Chiefgator said:
My largest objection is that I still don't see the cost outweighing the benefit.
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The initial bill calls for a registration fee of $50.00 for those convicted of animal cruelty.

Question: what if the cost of the registry would be also funded by voluntary contribution from peoples state tax returns using one of those check off boxes that are rather common these days?
 
haymarket said:
The initial bill calls for a registration fee of $50.00 for those convicted of animal cruelty.

Question: what if the cost of the registry would be also funded by voluntary contribution from peoples state tax returns using one of those check off boxes that are rather common these days?
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What about the hassle of the honest citizen? The hassle to the seller? Price is not always a cash value. The opportunity cost of the time to enact and legislate and enforce it could be much better spent elsewhere.
 
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