View Poll Results: Is a State Animal Abuse Registry a good idea?

Voters
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  • YES- this is a good idea

    27 36.00%
  • NO - this is not necessary

    39 52.00%
  • I like to abuse animals and do not want to be stopped

    3 4.00%
  • I am an animal

    6 8.00%
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Thread: Animal Abuse Registry

  1. #131
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    I'll give this some thought and respond after careful consideration. Thank you for caring.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Thank you for that input. Is there any suggestions you can make that would speak to some of your concerns and imporve this bill? I will gladly pass them on to the bills sponsors.

  2. #132
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    . A registration shall contain all of the following information:

    (a) The individual's name, social security number, date of birth, and address or expected address. An individual who is in a witness protection and relocation program is only required to use the name and identifying information reflecting his or her new identity in a registration under this act. The registration and compilation databases shall not contain any information identifying the individual's prior identity or locale. The department shall request each individual to provide his or her date of birth if it is not included in the registration, and that individual shall comply with the request within 10 days.

    (b) A brief summary of the individual's convictions for animal abuse offenses regardless of when the conviction occurred, including where the offense occurred and the original charge if the conviction was for a lesser offense.

    (c) A complete physical description of the individual.

    (d) The photograph required under section 9.

    (e) The individual's fingerprints if not already on file with the department. The department shall forward a copy of the individual's fingerprints to the federal bureau of investigation if not already on file with that bureau.

    (2) A registration may contain the individual's blood type and whether a DNA identification profile of the individual is available.
    Some initial thoughts...

    (a) SSN and DOB? No. Absolutely, no! One, each does nothing necessary to alert people. It's just superfluous information. Two, including each encourages ID theft by other people. It's one thing to want to thwart animal abusers. It's quite another encourage other ID thieves committing their crimes. All that does is increase and expand additional criminal activity. We shouldn't be encouraging more crime. This is a PERFECT example of the negative "unintended consequences" I have been railing against.

    (b). Original charge? No. Yes, I know the justice system isn't perfect, and some would fall through the cracks, but we either believe in "innocent until proven guilty", or we are a bunch of hypocrites. Convictions only. Period.

    (c) Fine.

    (d) Fine.

    (e) Seems redundant, but if it makes us feel better, whatever.

    (f) Again, seems redundant and unnecessary. Especially if the state already has a law that says these things are collected from criminals or alleged criminals of any sort.

    In this form, I could not support the bill.
    Last edited by radcen; 03-20-12 at 02:51 PM.

  3. #133
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I have no problems with any of this. Animal abuse is horrific. Some public shame should be attached to it. This accomplishes that quite well.
    What to you is animal abuse? What it is to someone that is in PETA? If I spanked my cat and rubbed his/her nose in their urine for pissing on the carpet in the living room would that be considered animal abuse? Spraying them with water via a water bottle? What?
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  4. #134
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Honest question for those who wholeheartedly support this idea:

    How do you propose to safeguard that the list is legit, and that there are no unintended consequences that plague virtually all the other similar lists?

    Unintended consequences including innocent people being caught up in it, and so on. Just one example.

    I don't dispute the issue of animal abuse, but when the proposed law is being drafted is the best time to think things through thoroughly and put these safeguards in. Because, as we know, politicians don't have enough backbone to go back and fix them after the damage has been done.
    Great question. What if we put something into the law which said that anyonewho believes they are wrongly on the animal abuse registry can apply to remove their name if tney can demonstrate sufficient cause or good reason - like if its a different John Jones in the same town.
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  5. #135
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Local Animal Cruelty Case Search | Pet-Abuse.Com Animal Cruelty Database

    There's your list. Why do we need another official government list, again?

    Keep in mind a couple points, also...

    1) The example given is Wayne County, which includes Detroit, whose numbers are most likely waaaaaay higher than any other county in the state.

    2) Many of the names on the list I cite above include investigations that are 'alleged' and 'open', which means the actual number of convictions is significantly lower. Granted, many of them, if not most, will eventually be convicted, but this is just example #12,409,844 that our society doesn't really believe in "innocent until proven guilty" no matter how much we prattle on about it. We've seen this in other lists, we see it here, we have no reason to believe this list will be better, and while the challenge was laid down a few pages ago for supporters to suggests safeguards, not one supporter has attempted to do so.
    Okay - so what is to stop somebody on this list from buying more animals? That is what I do not get?
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  6. #136
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Pondering this and I'm against the whole idea. If this is a convicted animal abuser, the police know and there is no reason to make a public list unless you're hoping that some animal lover (like me) gets in a rage and decides to kill you. I doubt that you'd catch me either since you won't know who accessed the list and how the data was further disseminated.

    It offers no protection to animals. Sure, the pound won't let you have one but they should have their own list anyway. Am I going to refuse to live in a neighborhood because there's an animal abuser nearby? Will breeders (may they be cursed) bother to check the list and refuse a sale? Ha. If one of my neighbors abused an animal, was caught and punished, how is this any of MY business?

    The more I think about it, the more I am opposed. If you were caught, tried and convicted and you served your time, then only LE has any reason to know this. Indeed, I feel the same way about all other crimes including pedophile crimes. The only exception might be a registry where IF I were considering moving to a neighborhood AND I had children, I could inquire to be assured no child sex offenders lived nearby.

    What will be next? Drug offenders registry? Burglar Registry? Littering Registry? Homicide Registry?

    I'm usually not controversial and I realize that this will cause a bunch of people to push the DISLIKE button but I just think it's a really, really bad idea.

  7. #137
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Great question. What if we put something into the law which said that anyonewho believes they are wrongly on the animal abuse registry can apply to remove their name if tney can demonstrate sufficient cause or good reason - like if its a different John Jones in the same town.
    I know I can get very cynical, but the ability to be removed from a registry if one is unfairly included has to be real and honest. No empty verbiage saying it can be done, but then supplying no path, or worse, making the path so difficult that there might as well not be a path at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Okay - so what is to stop somebody on this list from buying more animals? That is what I do not get?
    In that case I was being semi-facetious trying to make a point that the information is already out there in some form or another.

  8. #138
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    In the end a registry such as this does nothing but keep the punishment going for the entire life of a person. What is the use of even letting criminals out of jail/prison if they are just going to be punished for the rest of their lives?
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  9. #139
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Okay - so what is to stop somebody on this list from buying more animals? That is what I do not get?
    Nothing.... And this list won't stop anyone from getting them either.

    If a criminal wants a gun, he can get one. If a drug user wants drugs, he can get them. If a panty sniffer wants panties, he can get them....

    This may alter their behavior a bit. Now they will use Craigslist and the classifieds instead of the pound or a breeder. In the end it will be a hassle and an adder expense to regular folks and to the pound. It will also unfairly make a reformed/rehabilitated person a target for over zealous PETA types.

    If you don't think PETA will take that list and use it to hassle people, you are delusional.
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  10. #140
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    Re: Animal Abuse Registry

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Some initial thoughts...

    (a) SSN and DOB? No. Absolutely, no! One, each does nothing necessary to alert people. It's just superfluous information. Two, including each encourages ID theft by other people. It's one thing to want to thwart animal abusers. It's quite another encourage other ID thieves committing their crimes. All that does is increase and expand additional criminal activity. We shouldn't be encouraging more crime. This is a PERFECT example of the negative "unintended consequences" I have been railing against.

    (b). Original charge? No. Yes, I know the justice system isn't perfect, and some would fall through the cracks, but we either believe in "innocent until proven guilty", or we are a bunch of hypocrites. Convictions only. Period.

    (c) Fine.

    (d) Fine.

    (e) Seems redundant, but if it makes us feel better, whatever.

    (f) Again, seems redundant and unnecessary. Especially if the state already has a law that says these things are collected from criminals or alleged criminals of any sort.

    In this form, I could not support the bill.
    there are two levels to the bill.

    On the first, the public would be able to access it to get names and photo's of offenders. On the second, only specific people listed in the bill associated with law enforcement and animal protection would be able to access the fuller data base with things like date of birth and SS numbers.

    The original charge would be be listed - only the charge they have been convicted of.
    __________________________________________________ _
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