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Should unapproved lemonade stands be illegal?

Should unapproved lemonade stands be illegal?

  • Yes, the law is the law... string 'em up!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No, quit being so anal.

    Votes: 35 87.5%
  • This one's a toughie. I can't decide.

    Votes: 1 2.5%
  • Other.

    Votes: 4 10.0%

  • Total voters
    40
What say you?

They should be legal and promoted. A little business experience at a young age never hurts. They get a bit of money, and we get some lemonade. However, a devious kid could spike the lemonade, but with what? Give an inch to the government and it'll take a foot; it should back off and let the kids be.

The good outweighs the bad. Let them sell lemonade.
 
i can think of several paths to transmission of pathogens via improper food handling in this particular case.

the lemonade could be pressed and processed in a kitchen where meat is prepared and surfaces are improperly cleaned. also in most cases, we are talking about children who might not be fastidious about thorough handwashing.

would E. Coli or Salmonella thrive and multiply well in low pH / high sucrose cooled liquid culture? no. however, many organisms would remain viable. i have worked with strains of 0113 and 0157:H7 that have extremely low infectious doses; in some cases, the infectious dose is one organism.

also, norovirus (stomach "flu" / viral gastroenteritis) is efficiently transferred though food preparation by someone who is infected.

do i think cops should go around busting lemonade stands? no. however, i'm very happy that we tightly regulate the food service industry. i responded to this thread to give a little perspective. lemonade stands aren't being targeted for no reason by mean authoritarians who want to ruin a childhood rite of passage. there are legitimate reasons behind an increased awareness and enforcement of food safety issues.

Comparing a kids stand to the "food industry" is a bit of a stretch. Using your logic, then the govt. should check how you prepare your own food in your house. Do you wear gloves, wash hands properly, sanitize your prep surface, etc.? Should you have a permit to have guests over for dinner? Yes there is germs/bacteria out there. But give a kid a break.

Makes me wonder how I iived to my 60's since growing up we didn't have all this govt. protection/oversight.:lol:
 
Some scientists are beginning to believe we need a little more of that "stuff" to stay healthy. ;)
......

I firmly believe that a big part of the rise in allergies in the last generation or so is because people "live too clean", and are too obsessive about avoiding any possible germ contact. Like anybody else I want to keep the salmonella out of my canned meats, and the rat excrement content of my tuna to a minimum. However, a lot of people got downright obsessive about it in the last few decades and their children were not exposed to a lot of germs and allergens growing up like earlier gens. I came up with this notion two decades ago, and I'm interested to see that some scientists have had the same idea.

When my son was small I tried to keep a clean house, as much as a single working parent can do, but I also encouraged him to get dirty outside, play with puppies and kittens, eat blackberries off the bush, and so on...without necessarily washing everything in anti-b soap first. I also sneaked now and again and sprinkled a tiny pinch of dirt in his food, deliberately.... maybe no more than three or four times in his first five years. The idea was to expose him to stuff that he was going to encounter in the environment early.

He's 16 today and has zero known allergies; healthy as a horse, rarely ill. :shrug:
 
I firmly believe that a big part of the rise in allergies in the last generation or so is because people "live too clean", and are too obsessive about avoiding any possible germ contact. Like anybody else I want to keep the salmonella out of my canned meats, and the rat excrement content of my tuna to a minimum. However, a lot of people got downright obsessive about it in the last few decades and their children were not exposed to a lot of germs and allergens growing up like earlier gens. I came up with this notion two decades ago, and I'm interested to see that some scientists have had the same idea.

When my son was small I tried to keep a clean house, as much as a single working parent can do, but I also encouraged him to get dirty outside, play with puppies and kittens, eat blackberries off the bush, and so on...without necessarily washing everything in anti-b soap first. I also sneaked now and again and sprinkled a tiny pinch of dirt in his food, deliberately.... maybe no more than three or four times in his first five years. The idea was to expose him to stuff that he was going to encounter in the environment early.

He's 16 today and has zero known allergies; healthy as a horse, rarely ill. :shrug:
I am a firm believer in this point-of-view as well... though the dirt sprinkling seems a bit over-the-top.
 
of course kids lemonade stands should be illegal.

this country cannot afford for it's kids to become capitalists or entrepreneurs...

hit 'em while they are young and hit 'em hard!... don't let these dangerous ideas get into kid's heads!
 
If it's a kid's lemonade stand then it's crazy to shut it down unless someone complains. As long as the kids are not causing some major traffic problem then I don't see an issue.

I'd be willing to bet that in the instance where something has happened, there is a complaint that they are either blocking a sidewalk or being too noisy or something.

Now, in this case, calling the cops is still stupid. It's a chance for a kid to learn a life lesson and adults should help them in that. If they're blocking the sidewalk, explain to them why they need to move back a bit (in case someone in a wheelchair needs to get by or a mother with a baby stroller) or if they're being too loud tell them why they need to keep their volume down out of respect to neighbors.

That said, I think that communities should have free permits that kids and parents should get together. If the kid grows up and wants to open a business, she's going to need a permit. Why not learn that lesson young as well? Even if you hate the thought of it, it is part of life.
 
You'll have to show me the link for that one! We have garage/yard sales every June in our subdivision. They last all weekend and some of our neighbors are LEO's. No one gets a permit of any kind and never has.

Our local office for permits.

Official Home of the City of Sedalia, Missouri - City Departments - City Clerk

The City Clerk's office issues garage sale permits for all city residents interested in having a garage or yard sale. A residence within the city may have three (3) garage sales each year and is required to receive a permit for each sale.
 
Comparing a kids stand to the "food industry" is a bit of a stretch. Using your logic, then the govt. should check how you prepare your own food in your house. Do you wear gloves, wash hands properly, sanitize your prep surface, etc.? Should you have a permit to have guests over for dinner? Yes there is germs/bacteria out there. But give a kid a break.

Makes me wonder how I iived to my 60's since growing up we didn't have all this govt. protection/oversight.:lol:
He didn't say that the government should regulate lemonade stands so I don't know how you could argue that his "logic" would mean that the government should check how he prepares food in his house. His actual point was that there are several ways that kids could transmit pathogens in their preparation and that, as a consequence, it's not the mere desire to exert authority that has people talking about regulation - it's also concern based on legitimate potential problems.
 
He didn't say that the government should regulate lemonade stands so I don't know how you could argue that his "logic" would mean that the government should check how he prepares food in his house. His actual point was that there are several ways that kids could transmit pathogens in their preparation and that, as a consequence, it's not the mere desire to exert authority that has people talking about regulation - it's also concern based on legitimate potential problems.

From Helix post.: "i'm very happy that we tightly regulate the food service industry"

Who regulates other than govt. (local/county/State/Feds)? Does the same potential of spreading pathogens exist when you prepare food at home? Could you not make a guest sick by improper preperation?
Anytime you handle food there could be a threat. Common sense needs to prevail.
 
From Helix post.: "i'm very happy that we tightly regulate the food service industry"

Who regulates other than govt. (local/county/State/Feds)? Does the same potential of spreading pathogens exist when you prepare food at home? Could you not make a guest sick by improper preperation?
Anytime you handle food there could be a threat. Common sense needs to prevail.
From his post:
do i think cops should go around busting lemonade stands? no.

Like I said, he didn't argue that the government should regulate lemonade stands so I don't how you could conclude that his "logic" means that the government should regulate his kitchen. He mentioned the food industry to support his argument that people's desire to regulate lemonade stands is rooted in legitimate concerns even if he doesn't think the government should "bust lemonade stands".

In other words, common sense did prevail.
 
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i can think of several paths to transmission of pathogens via improper food handling in this particular case.

the lemonade could be pressed and processed in a kitchen where meat is prepared and surfaces are improperly cleaned. also in most cases, we are talking about children who might not be fastidious about thorough handwashing.

would E. Coli or Salmonella thrive and multiply well in low pH / high sucrose cooled liquid culture? no. however, many organisms would remain viable. i have worked with strains of 0113 and 0157:H7 that have extremely low infectious doses; in some cases, the infectious dose is one organism.

also, norovirus (stomach "flu" / viral gastroenteritis) is efficiently transferred though food preparation by someone who is infected.

do i think cops should go around busting lemonade stands? no. however, i'm very happy that we tightly regulate the food service industry. i responded to this thread to give a little perspective. lemonade stands aren't being targeted for no reason by mean authoritarians who want to ruin a childhood rite of passage. there are legitimate reasons behind an increased awareness and enforcement of food safety issues.
First off I want to state that I am not a "fan" of Peta and what bothers me in this video is not necessarily what the chickens feel. What bothers me is the unsanitary conditions. What bothers me even more is that the government routinely looks the other way for big business while harassing small time produce and butchers who do grow and produce food in much better conditions. they sometimes even go after the kids lemonade stand. I do not eat mass produced food, because of this and the numerous other videos that are out there of so many of the major companies. People need to wake up to what the government is doing to the innocent small time producers and what they are allowing big business to get away with. So, for all those who have faith in our almighty government who is protecting us... better think again.


 
That's Sedalia. You said: which I took to mean the State of Missouri. A lot of cities have garage sale permit requirements but we don't, which is why your comment concerned me. ;)

Sorry you are correct, I said state but it seems to be city governance.
 
First off I want to state that I am not a "fan" of Peta and what bothers me in this video is not necessarily what the chickens feel. What bothers me is the unsanitary conditions. What bothers me even more is that the government routinely looks the other way for big business while harassing small time produce and butchers who do grow and produce food in much better conditions. they sometimes even go after the kids lemonade stand. I do not eat mass produced food, because of this and the numerous other videos that are out there of so many of the major companies. People need to wake up to what the government is doing to the innocent small time producers and what they are allowing big business to get away with. So, for all those who have faith in our almighty government who is protecting us... better think again.




I live in a area of the country were large poultry farms are prevalent. My parents formally owned a poultry farm and although we had hired workers and the farm was 40 miles from our residence, I know a thing or two about the business and it is imo a cruel way to force animals to live.
 
I am not gonna disagree with you on the cruelty issue, but my personal issue is the utter lack of sanitary conditions which the major companies get away with for profit. And that the government looks the other way for them and then harasses the small time operations and things like lemonade stands.
 
I am not gonna disagree with you on the cruelty issue, but my personal issue is the utter lack of sanitary conditions which the major companies get away with for profit. And that the government looks the other way for them and then harasses the small time operations and things like lemonade stands.
Industrial birds are so full of antibiotics you could throw them into a lab filled with bird flu and they'd never get sick. Not saying that's a good thing, just saying their living conditions don't mean squat with that in mind. I'm sure other stuff, feces and etc, are washed off during processing.
 
Industrial birds are so full of antibiotics you could throw them into a lab filled with bird flu and they'd never get sick. Not saying that's a good thing, just saying their living conditions don't mean squat with that in mind. I'm sure other stuff, feces and etc, are washed off during processing.
Yeah, cause as we saw in the video they are really into meeting the fed standards... oh wait, all that stuff shouldn't be there in the 1st place... You really want to lay any money down on how safe all this food is?

Just because people are not dropping dead after eating it doesn't mean that it is good or healthy for you. Perhaps how are mass produced meats are brought to us is a reason why this nation has become the most obese and sickest of the major industrial nations.
 
Yeah, cause as we saw in the video they are really into meeting the fed standards... oh wait, all that stuff shouldn't be there in the 1st place... You really want to lay any money down on how safe all this food is?

Just because people are not dropping dead after eating it doesn't mean that it is good or healthy for you. Perhaps how are mass produced meats are brought to us is a reason why this nation has become the most obese and sickest of the major industrial nations.
We lay our money down every day betting it'll be safe enough to eat. Whether it actually is or not is a different question. You were talking about the mess and possible diseases in the video. I personally don't think that's a problem and I explained why.

I did, however, hint that all those antibiotics may not be such a good thing. Those drugs are present in virtually every animal we eat in America and milk, too, which includes it's other products like cheese and yogurt. This has been going on for decades and, yes, I personally think it's a risk. But I think antibacterial soap should be used extremely sparingly, too.


Ed:
If you want to blame someone blame James Reyniers and the misguided biologists that followed him.
 
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I do understand that butchering anything ain't gonna be pretty. And with big companies, there will be mass raising for mass slaughter. That will really be hard to watch for the weak stomached people. What bothers me is the amount of standards that are busted on a daily basis. There are sooooo many videos out there of the major food producing companies that are busted, yet the government looks the other way. Yeah, maybe the antibiotics help, but no wonder people are always coming down with something.

As for the antibiotic thing, I definitely agree with you. Its been known for a while now. Just because my kids ears would hurt a little, I wouldn't run them to the doc cause I know what they would have done. Even when I have a sore throat, unless it gets real bad, I am not gonna take antibiotics for it. Its gotta be raw and bloody for me to do that. There is definitely a time and use for them, but we have overused them so damn much and now it gets harder and harder to find ones that will work for bacterial infections.
 
The body will cure itself of many bacterial infections if they are not all that severe. The minute a doc finds that we have one, it is automatic that an antibiotic is prescribed. Our bodies are able to fight off many of them on its own.
 
I do understand that butchering anything ain't gonna be pretty. And with big companies, there will be mass raising for mass slaughter. That will really be hard to watch for the weak stomached people. What bothers me is the amount of standards that are busted on a daily basis. There are sooooo many videos out there of the major food producing companies that are busted, yet the government looks the other way. Yeah, maybe the antibiotics help, but no wonder people are always coming down with something.
And yet people bitch about regulation and government spending. Few realize just how many food industries there are in America. It's takes a lot of money to inspect all those installations and farms but no one wants to pay for it. Personally, I think we do pretty good considering.
 
I think it kind of depends. If it's just some kid selling lemonade in their front yard or whatever, leave them alone. If it's an organization that is selling it or they're set up somewhere in public where they're getting a lot more traffic, or it's some kind of fundraiser or something, then maybe they should get a permit.

I believe fundraisers and such already require permits.
 
And yet people bitch about regulation and government spending. Few realize just how many food industries there are in America. It's takes a lot of money to inspect all those installations and farms but no one wants to pay for it. Personally, I think we do pretty good considering.
No, we are not. There are countless videos of horrific regulation abuses, horrendous unsanitary conditions. So many times people have turned in these major companies, yet the government will turn a blind eye. I for one feel healthier and am less sick since switching to local homegrown and raised foods. Not only that but they are cheaper besides.
 
No, we are not. There are countless videos of horrific regulation abuses, horrendous unsanitary conditions. So many times people have turned in these major companies, yet the government will turn a blind eye. I for one feel healthier and am less sick since switching to local homegrown and raised foods. Not only that but they are cheaper besides.
Food safety is what I use as a guideline for saying "I think we do pretty good considering". How many people are (provably) sick or dead each year from commercial foods out of the megatons processed each year?

But I have nothing against anyone shunning commercial foods. I've already stated what I think about the additives in most commercial foodstuffs.
 
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